low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
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Brown Note
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
Powerful pickups have definite advantages in both cases if audible distortion is to be expected. Highest output pickups can easily drive even the first tube section into overdrive and this allows the user to balance the overall distortions in every section with the gain(or volume control if non MV amp is used). The sound is usually more fluid when several gain stages moderately overdriven compared to hard overdrive in just a few sections. The latter provides a better sustain in theory, though this is much dependant on the design of the amplifier.
The more important thing is the sound you're after. When high amounts of distortion is used, the output of the pickup makes little to no difference on the amount of perceived distortion or the sustain and this is very true with all modern multi channel amps. Slash has very low output humbuckers and his tone is fantastic. Yngwie uses ultra very low output pickups and his tone is equally awesome. Metallica has had duncans and EMG's and has recorded mother f*ing and grandmother f*ing awesome tunes with both. Megadeth used/uses passive mid output pickups and they have also had grandmother f*ng great tones.
Aside from yngwie, all of them have had amps designed for low to very high amounts distortion and all of them have had great success with both kinds of amps. It's also true that a specific sound can be made with completely different kinds of amps. Yngwie sounds can be had with very high output amp driven with very low single coils or very high output humbuckers. This is not only because of the player but because a specific part of your amplification can be made/tuned to accommodate some other parts.
What is working great for someone is not good for someone else. I have a Floyded guitar and it's sporting very high output on-board preamp combined with ceramic mid output pickups set up very far from the strings and pushed through a 5150. I'm using this setup(quite successfully) to come up with slash type tone.
My point is that like every other part of the system used, the pickups need to fill in something that's missing and something else needs to accommodate what the pickup is missing(warmer pickups trough a bright amp, or warming up ever further the sound of a warm guitar etc)
Powerful pickups have definite advantages in both cases if audible distortion is to be expected. Highest output pickups can easily drive even the first tube section into overdrive and this allows the user to balance the overall distortions in every section with the gain(or volume control if non MV amp is used). The sound is usually more fluid when several gain stages moderately overdriven compared to hard overdrive in just a few sections. The latter provides a better sustain in theory, though this is much dependant on the design of the amplifier.
The more important thing is the sound you're after. When high amounts of distortion is used, the output of the pickup makes little to no difference on the amount of perceived distortion or the sustain and this is very true with all modern multi channel amps. Slash has very low output humbuckers and his tone is fantastic. Yngwie uses ultra very low output pickups and his tone is equally awesome. Metallica has had duncans and EMG's and has recorded mother f*ing and grandmother f*ing awesome tunes with both. Megadeth used/uses passive mid output pickups and they have also had grandmother f*ng great tones.
Aside from yngwie, all of them have had amps designed for low to very high amounts distortion and all of them have had great success with both kinds of amps. It's also true that a specific sound can be made with completely different kinds of amps. Yngwie sounds can be had with very high output amp driven with very low single coils or very high output humbuckers. This is not only because of the player but because a specific part of your amplification can be made/tuned to accommodate some other parts.
What is working great for someone is not good for someone else. I have a Floyded guitar and it's sporting very high output on-board preamp combined with ceramic mid output pickups set up very far from the strings and pushed through a 5150. I'm using this setup(quite successfully) to come up with slash type tone.
My point is that like every other part of the system used, the pickups need to fill in something that's missing and something else needs to accommodate what the pickup is missing(warmer pickups trough a bright amp, or warming up ever further the sound of a warm guitar etc)
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Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
High gain is very subjective. Metal and massive detuning usually requires a tighter more focussed pickup.
Most high gain hard rock you can put low o/p pups in and let the amp do the work.
As Brown Note says, it all depend on the sound you want to create
High gain is very subjective. Metal and massive detuning usually requires a tighter more focussed pickup.
Most high gain hard rock you can put low o/p pups in and let the amp do the work.
As Brown Note says, it all depend on the sound you want to create
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
I like low to mid output pickups myself. I play through modern, multi-channel amps with high gain capabilities and get pretty much every distortion tone I need. The reason I like low to mid output pickups has more to do with my clean tones. I like big, lush, sparkly cleans. High output pickups tend to give up some high end complexity and midrange bloom when played clean.
I like low to mid output pickups myself. I play through modern, multi-channel amps with high gain capabilities and get pretty much every distortion tone I need. The reason I like low to mid output pickups has more to do with my clean tones. I like big, lush, sparkly cleans. High output pickups tend to give up some high end complexity and midrange bloom when played clean.
Metalblaze
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
I use HO PUs too. At home I get the distortion digitally becauase of low volume situations. At rehearshals I use high gain amps when I can. It's about the pickups and how they react for me. Not the amps actually. The amps just have to be tight and clear. High gain amps are simply designed to be tight and clear in high gain, that's why I tend to use them.
Of course it's all about the music you wanna play.
You can't play riffs like these with any equipment equally well:
I use HO PUs too. At home I get the distortion digitally becauase of low volume situations. At rehearshals I use high gain amps when I can. It's about the pickups and how they react for me. Not the amps actually. The amps just have to be tight and clear. High gain amps are simply designed to be tight and clear in high gain, that's why I tend to use them.
Of course it's all about the music you wanna play.
You can't play riffs like these with any equipment equally well:
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
I don't have any problems like that with my PATB-1: but it is weirdly open for how high output it is. It's problems with cleans are avoiding pushing modellers into distortion on clean patches.
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
I suppose I should make it clear: I'm primarily a single coil guy. I do use and enjoy humbuckers, but most humbuckers above a certain output (12-14k for me) tend to sound congested, compressed, and cluttered sounding. I really need to hear at least some of the acoustic sound of my guitar coming through in the amplified realm.
There are some high output pickups that can do this (like the Custom Shop El Diablo or the Dime), but as a general rule, I like low to mid output 'buckers.
I suppose I should make it clear: I'm primarily a single coil guy. I do use and enjoy humbuckers, but most humbuckers above a certain output (12-14k for me) tend to sound congested, compressed, and cluttered sounding. I really need to hear at least some of the acoustic sound of my guitar coming through in the amplified realm.
There are some high output pickups that can do this (like the Custom Shop El Diablo or the Dime), but as a general rule, I like low to mid output 'buckers.
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
I just installed a demon in my explorer today...running it through a mesa studio pre. I'm was going for tighter, percussive sound with less output, so the demon seemed right...and it is. I'm able to get percussive on the pick attack while still having enough gain to play leads. And it doesn't over saturate either. A different approach for me in pickups/gain levels.
Now, a neck pickup that will provide similar tone and dynamics? Another demon in the neck, or?
I just installed a demon in my explorer today...running it through a mesa studio pre. I'm was going for tighter, percussive sound with less output, so the demon seemed right...and it is. I'm able to get percussive on the pick attack while still having enough gain to play leads. And it doesn't over saturate either. A different approach for me in pickups/gain levels.
Now, a neck pickup that will provide similar tone and dynamics? Another demon in the neck, or?
Virtual Kevorkian
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
EMG's unique combo of a low-wind pickup that's boosted to high-output resistance via preamp is the ideal gain structure, IMO - nothing else is as tight or clean while still being smooth and controlled. I honestly think that EMG's sound far more natural than a high output pickup into a high gain amp, and low output pickups just aren't tight enough into high gain amps IMO.
EMG's unique combo of a low-wind pickup that's boosted to high-output resistance via preamp is the ideal gain structure, IMO - nothing else is as tight or clean while still being smooth and controlled. I honestly think that EMG's sound far more natural than a high output pickup into a high gain amp, and low output pickups just aren't tight enough into high gain amps IMO.
Metalblaze
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
Once it's an Explorer I would think the FS neck?
Check Bare Knuckles out.
They are phenomenal.
Also the BL L500XL.
Once it's an Explorer I would think the FS neck?
Virtual Kevorkian said:
Check Bare Knuckles out.
They are phenomenal.Also the BL L500XL.
Franknfilms
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
Yeah, I have had quite a learning experience with high gain pickups and a high gain amp lately. I did my first pickup swap a year or so ago, Duncan Distortion. Sounded a million times better than stock pickups, but then I got a high gain tube amp (peavey xxx) and something just wasn't right about it to my ears. The DD was heavily compressed and just didn't have the depth of gain that I wanted, sure it is loud and heavily distorted but I just have this magical lush full crunchy distortion in my head and that isn't what I got. Custom 8 got me much much closer. The EMGs really deliver great tones through the high gain amp too I must say. I just don't love the attack of the actives. Palm mutes and other techniques come off a little squishy compared to passives. I'm going to buy an agile 3100 this winter and put some low output pafs in it, it will be nice to have that perspective as well.
Yeah, I have had quite a learning experience with high gain pickups and a high gain amp lately. I did my first pickup swap a year or so ago, Duncan Distortion. Sounded a million times better than stock pickups, but then I got a high gain tube amp (peavey xxx) and something just wasn't right about it to my ears. The DD was heavily compressed and just didn't have the depth of gain that I wanted, sure it is loud and heavily distorted but I just have this magical lush full crunchy distortion in my head and that isn't what I got. Custom 8 got me much much closer. The EMGs really deliver great tones through the high gain amp too I must say. I just don't love the attack of the actives. Palm mutes and other techniques come off a little squishy compared to passives. I'm going to buy an agile 3100 this winter and put some low output pafs in it, it will be nice to have that perspective as well.
cthroatgtr
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
For high gain it depends on the music. If you are doing YJM/Vai/Satch you probably want lower output pickups through high gain (though Vai does the opposite). If you are going for heavier tones though the low gain p/u don't work. They just get too warm and muddy and lose their definition. That is why a lot of metal guys go active. I know there is always a debate on here that "low output" p/u always sound better but that isn't entirely true. If you want warm earthy tones sure. You need definition and clarity and big bottom those low gain p/u mush out.
For high gain it depends on the music. If you are doing YJM/Vai/Satch you probably want lower output pickups through high gain (though Vai does the opposite). If you are going for heavier tones though the low gain p/u don't work. They just get too warm and muddy and lose their definition. That is why a lot of metal guys go active. I know there is always a debate on here that "low output" p/u always sound better but that isn't entirely true. If you want warm earthy tones sure. You need definition and clarity and big bottom those low gain p/u mush out.
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
My only problem with a lot of the low output pu's with hi gain amps is they tend to mush out a little bit. I would say moderate output is more what you want.
Now if you got an old marshall and you want to push the hell out of it drop an invader or an x2n in your axe and you will be in heaven. High Output PU's can do things to those amps od pedals cannot do.
My only problem with a lot of the low output pu's with hi gain amps is they tend to mush out a little bit. I would say moderate output is more what you want.
Now if you got an old marshall and you want to push the hell out of it drop an invader or an x2n in your axe and you will be in heaven. High Output PU's can do things to those amps od pedals cannot do.
Petrovsk Mizinski
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
As far as Yngwie goes, well honestly his rhythm guitar tone is terrible.
Absolutely no meat to it and quite frankly I'd be embarrassed to have recorded rhythm guitar tones like that.
Dave Mustaine's signature pickup is actually quite high output.
Speaking of rhythm tones, the tone on Endgame......now that's an actually quite good rhythm tone.
Indeed, ever since I got my Schecter C-7 Hellraiser I prefer the EMGs for high gain rhythm tones.
Although the Blackouts in my Ibanez (combined with the shorter scale length) seem to just sound a bit nicer on leads.
Satch tends to use medium output pickups.
He's been spotted with his custom JS series guitars with a triple single coil setup, on the Experience Hendrix tour and I imagine that would be a bit lower output to get more of a Hendrix-y vibe.
Also, his PAF Joe pickup, that came out I think it was 5-6 years ago, is a little lower output than his PAF Fred pickups, so it seems as he's gotten older he's liking the sound of lower output more.
He's always been a very bluesy guy (and even though he can shred, IMHO he's a fantastic blues guitarist too), so it makes sense.
As far as Yngwie goes, well honestly his rhythm guitar tone is terrible.
Absolutely no meat to it and quite frankly I'd be embarrassed to have recorded rhythm guitar tones like that.
Dave Mustaine's signature pickup is actually quite high output.
Speaking of rhythm tones, the tone on Endgame......now that's an actually quite good rhythm tone.
Indeed, ever since I got my Schecter C-7 Hellraiser I prefer the EMGs for high gain rhythm tones.
Although the Blackouts in my Ibanez (combined with the shorter scale length) seem to just sound a bit nicer on leads.
Satch tends to use medium output pickups.
He's been spotted with his custom JS series guitars with a triple single coil setup, on the Experience Hendrix tour and I imagine that would be a bit lower output to get more of a Hendrix-y vibe.
Also, his PAF Joe pickup, that came out I think it was 5-6 years ago, is a little lower output than his PAF Fred pickups, so it seems as he's gotten older he's liking the sound of lower output more.
He's always been a very bluesy guy (and even though he can shred, IMHO he's a fantastic blues guitarist too), so it makes sense.
xntrick
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
i have a peavey 3120 that i use with actives (emg60, ahb2 blackout) and i have a problem with feed back, what kind of noise gate do you use?
i have a peavey 3120 that i use with actives (emg60, ahb2 blackout) and i have a problem with feed back, what kind of noise gate do you use?
Desert
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
I don't like high output pickups, period. The hottest I can go on a humbucker is the 78, and my fav strat pickups are less than 6k of resistance, a5 mags.
The dynamics, imo, are unparalleled once you get used to playing them.
I also think that a vintage output pickups can really liven up a high-gain amp that may a little on the sterile side.
Ok, now please PayPal me 5 bucks if you read that.
I don't like high output pickups, period. The hottest I can go on a humbucker is the 78, and my fav strat pickups are less than 6k of resistance, a5 mags.
The dynamics, imo, are unparalleled once you get used to playing them.
I also think that a vintage output pickups can really liven up a high-gain amp that may a little on the sterile side.
Ok, now please PayPal me 5 bucks if you read that.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
PAF Joe goes in the neck, the Mo' Joe (bridge) is a Fred with slightly more output.
PAF Joe goes in the neck, the Mo' Joe (bridge) is a Fred with slightly more output.
Franknfilms
New member
Re: low output pickups with high gain amps, and vice versa
Thought this would be the appropriate place to post my discoveries after finally playing all my guitars cranked with a drummer last night. We have a southern rock/metal hybrid sound kind of like the Sword or Baroness.
Schecter with C8 - the clear winner. Warm, dynamic, crunchy classic tones that you might get with a lower output humbucker, but tighter action and more gain
Washbrun with Crunch Lab - second best, awesome cutting tone, nice and clear, not as lush as the Custom 8, a great backup guitar though or the choice guitar for a very lead heavy song. Vocal sound from this pickup much more apparent when it is cranked, very cool but not right for some of the more classic rock sounds
Viper with EMG81 - whao, didn't think this would disappoint me so much. Feedback city, the other guitars were completely quiet with the gain cranked, mushy fizzy distortion, drummer asked me to put this guitar away I'm not an EMG hater but it just isn't going to work for our band, I'm going to sell this guitar
Thought this would be the appropriate place to post my discoveries after finally playing all my guitars cranked with a drummer last night. We have a southern rock/metal hybrid sound kind of like the Sword or Baroness.
Schecter with C8 - the clear winner. Warm, dynamic, crunchy classic tones that you might get with a lower output humbucker, but tighter action and more gain
Washbrun with Crunch Lab - second best, awesome cutting tone, nice and clear, not as lush as the Custom 8, a great backup guitar though or the choice guitar for a very lead heavy song. Vocal sound from this pickup much more apparent when it is cranked, very cool but not right for some of the more classic rock sounds
Viper with EMG81 - whao, didn't think this would disappoint me so much. Feedback city, the other guitars were completely quiet with the gain cranked, mushy fizzy distortion, drummer asked me to put this guitar away
I'm not an EMG hater but it just isn't going to work for our band, I'm going to sell this guitarSimilar threads
