low-passing electric guitars

[DankStar]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

The modeler is a gsp 1101, and it works just fine.

Taken from Andy sneap's responses to inquiries:

"I judge it by ear, how tight whoever is playing, what cab etc is being used. I find with my Marshall loaded with Celestion 30's I'm having to cut 10/12k and above because of a fizz that I don't get on the boogie cab. Same with the low end, the boogie is more controlled. I think the trick with lower tuned stuff, is to get a more aggressive mid range, to try and get the note to come through. Also with the bass, try getting the DI, run it through something like amp farm /sans amp and filter everything below 800hz-ish and above 2k-ish and mix it in underneath your main sound, see if it helps bring the bass out, especially on smaller speakers." A.S.

I'm using a similar speaker to the v30. I believe the fizz of which he speaks it's what I'm hearing.

http://mixingtips.userboard.net/t58-golden-tips-andy-sneap-reveals-some-of-his-techniques

 

[uOpt]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

Well the v30 fizzles a bit for sure. I can imagine wanting a LPF on the v30. I usually put it at 0 Hz

 

[mamm]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

V30:

http://celestion.com/product/1/vintage_30/

 

[mamm]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

I can imagine wanting a LPF on the v30. I usually put it at 0 Hz

:laughing:

Well played, sir.

 

[DankStar]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

ok - not sure what I was doing in reaper the other day to think I was hearing stuff as high as I was hearing. I see now that while I do have some things (minimal) going on over 10 khz, most of the issue was around 9-10 khz.

I put stuff into logic and did a quick test w/the rhythm over the lead part.

Here it is without any processing:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16938354/duke analysis.mp3

ugh - it's even worse converting to mp3. maybe some of that is the modeler, I dunno.

Here it is with a low pass at 7228 hz (landed on that value moving it around):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16938354/duke analysis 2.mp3

(there's some weird clips in there - disregard; I think it was because I accidentally was mixing in real time which my computer can't really handle)

 

[Dahla]

low-passing electric guitars

Low pass is just as important as high pass. The frequencies eats up headroom, and everyone who does mix work knows that headroom is alfa omega. Especially in the digital domain where there's a roof. (0 dbfs)


Fun experiment: while the music/mix is playing, insert a LPF, and start turning it down. How low can you go before hearing a difference in the mix? Everything above that point, get rid off it. Your mix will thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FretFire]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

Its actually rare to hear of real amps being low passed. That's usually reserved for removing the hash from modellers.

Yep, I do it quite a bit with tracks recorded using some kind of modeler. It tames the high-end fizz/graininess people often complain about.

 

[mamm]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

Mr. (or Ms.) DankStar, with all due respect, two things:

- 192kbps MP3 will obliterate most things near 10KHz and above, so maybe we can't hear, in your two samples, what you can hear in your studio;

- sorry if that's too basic, but sometimes we gloss over basic things: are you aware that 10Khz to 20Khz is just one octave? It occupies the same "slice" of the sonic spectrum as any other octave (say, 100Hz to 200Hz). Sometimes, the 10.000 hertz interval of the last octave fools one into overestimating the importance of this subset of the sonic range... And, speaking of octaves, the first one (20Hz to 40Hz) and the last one (10Khz to 20Khz) are the "less important" ones anyway, since they are the ones less audible by the listeners (the first one thanks to most equipment's and listening environment's limitations in reproducing extreme bass, and the last one because the listener has to be at an optimal position in front of the tweeter).

 

[uOpt]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

There must be something specific about 192 kbps mp3s because my 128 kpbs ones sure don't cut off above 10 kHz

 

[DankStar]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

I hear weird cymbal stuff in 128 mp3s, like a washy tinny thing.

 

[uOpt]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

I hear weird cymbal stuff in 128 mp3s, like a washy tinny thing.

Sure. But it isn't cut off.

 

[mamm]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

Sure, it's not a total cut, it's more of a "weird-erization" of extreme treble. Maybe "obliterate" wasn't the best word I could use... lol

What I meant to say was: maybe 192Kbps MP3 is not the best format choice to realistically show something over 10KHz. We can't judge DankStar's extreme high end based on a couple of MP3.

 

[DankStar]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

Sure, it's not a total cut, it's more of a "weird-erization" of extreme treble. Maybe "obliterate" wasn't the best word I could use... lol

What I meant to say was: maybe 192Kbps MP3 is not the best format choice to realistically show something over 10KHz. We can't judge DankStar's extreme high end based on a couple of MP3.

I see - we'll if the second one doesn't sound god awful to anyone, I'll run with it.

 

[mamm]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

I listened to both; I liked the attitude, the rawness contained in the playing. I'd like to hear the completed song; it grabbed me.

#2 sounds better, less fizzy. But, IMHO, both samples have too much bass to fit in a mix. I'd cut a little bass to create some space to the bass guitar.

Please allow me to be Captain Obvious again: don't EQ guitars (or any other instrument) solo'ed, EQ them inside the mix. If you EQ them solo'ed, trying to get the biggest sound you can find, they'll step all over the bass, the voice, etc and turn your mixing session into a nightmare. Most guitar tracks, after EQ'd to fit correctly in a mix, will sound, well, "not heavy" when solo'ed.

 

[DankStar]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

I listened to both; I liked the attitude in the playing. #2 sounds better, less fizzy. But, IMHO, both have too much bass to fit in a mix. I'd cut a little bass to create some space to the bass guitar.

Please allow me to be Mr. Obvious again: don't EQ guitars (or any other instrument) solo'ed, EQ them inside the mix. If you EQ them solo'ed, trying to get the biggest sound you can find, they'll step all over the bass, the voice, etc and turn your mixing session to a nightmare. Most guitar tracks, after EQ'd to fit correctly in a mix, will sound odd when solo'ed.

Thanks - I haven't done the bass guitar yet. I didn't want to proceed with things until I figured out this high end thing that was bothering me because if it was something I couldn't control I'd have to re-record the rhythms. I'll definitely spend some time on both the bass sound and having it work with the main guitars.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

Just about every guitar track I've heard or produced over the last 10+ years, when I apply EQ adjustments anywhere from 6k through 14k, there is a noticeable affect. There is content there that influences the sound and mix. Whether it's explained away as room reflection enhanced harmonics, or whatever, it's there. I think the notion that there isn't any usable, meaningful sound in guitar above 7K or so is based more on test data than working in a studio in a reference listening environment and really hearing what is there. But that's my experience.

 

[Dadul]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

ok - not sure what I was doing in reaper the other day to think I was hearing stuff as high as I was hearing. I see now that while I do have some things (minimal) going on over 10 khz, most of the issue was around 9-10 khz.

I put stuff into logic and did a quick test w/the rhythm over the lead part.

Here it is without any processing:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16938354/duke analysis.mp3

ugh - it's even worse converting to mp3. maybe some of that is the modeler, I dunno.

Here it is with a low pass at 7228 hz (landed on that value moving it around):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16938354/duke analysis 2.mp3

(there's some weird clips in there - disregard; I think it was because I accidentally was mixing in real time which my computer can't really handle)

Case closed. #2 sounds great, and your not taking away a big part of the sound i.e. it still has all the frequencies youd expect to hear from a distorted electric guitar.

 

[DankStar]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

Cool - nice to get such feedback.

 

[everdrone]

Re: low-passing electric guitars

I agree with the aformentioned subtractive EQ techniques, and mixing inside the mix. there really are no rules, and you want to see how the frequencies of the other instruments are in comparison to the guitars. it depends what song, what guitars, and so on.

I like to spike frequencies areound 1k-2k and roll off a bit of top end with my IR impulses for my recordings.