Low tunings + low tension = good

[JB_From_Hell]

After spending years and years trying to figure out custom sets to make a guitar tuned down to C or B or whatever feel exactly like 10-46 in standard, it's occurred to me that lowered string tension is part of the sound I like with the low tunings.

My Schecter C-1 is in drop B with a 12-56 set. My PRS SE Custom 24 is in drop C with 10-52, with a half inch shorter scale, and sounds much clearer and just overall "better" to my ears.

No real point to this... just feel silly for taking this long to realize that.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

This is one reason I like 9s in standard pitch (25.5”). The lower tension gives the strings more snap.
On my guitar tuned down to C I use an 11-49 set.


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[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

Haha, it's fitting that you replied, given the amount of crap I've slung about heavier strings. I still stand by "Strat + heavy + gritty tone = blues", but if I'm playing heavy stuff, I'm definitely digging lighter strings.

The 8 string (standard plus low F# and B) has been really challenging. It's a 27" scale, so if you go with the string gauges in most sets, it starts sounding like a bass on the low strings. Currently, I have it 9,12,15,22,30,40,54,74 and it sounds more like a guitar. Bending still feels weird though, just because of the longer scale. Thinking about bumping the plain strings to 9.5,13,16.

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

I like med/high tension because I like the faster return/bounce

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

Haha, it's fitting that you replied, given the amount of crap I've slung about heavier strings. I still stand by "Strat + heavy + gritty tone = blues", but if I'm playing heavy stuff, I'm definitely digging lighter strings.

The 8 string (standard plus low F# and B) has been really challenging. It's a 27" scale, so if you go with the string gauges in most sets, it starts sounding like a bass on the low strings. Currently, I have it 9,12,15,22,30,40,54,74 and it sounds more like a guitar. Bending still feels weird though, just because of the longer scale. Thinking about bumping the plain strings to 9.5,13,16.

Yeah, the “sounding like a bass” thing is why I don’t like heavy guitar strings.

I loathe the blues. It’s played out.... just a bunch of white dudes that want an excuse to mindlessly solo over chord changes so repetitive that it makes me want to pull my hair out! Lol you can drop any blues solo into any blues song and it will fit. It’s a bunch of clenched licks that all sound the same. Lol

Where’s the originality? It’s old music. The people that invented those licks are all dead.

I find lighter strings to be more expressive. Guys bending heavy strings always sound choked. It never hits the mark. The vibrato is stunted. Barely a quarter step. And they look like they are having a stroke. Lol

And you know what BB King said to Billy Gibbons? “Why work so hard?” He used light strings on a Gibson scale.

I like doing very wide bends, often a step and a half, and lately pedal steel type stuff. That’s in a heavy rock band. I don’t want to fight the guitar or think about it. Just play.

I’m intrigued by 7 and 8 strings. I’ll probably build myself a 7 string. I tried an Ibanez 8 string and didn’t like it much. The strings were too close together, and the bass strings too heavy! I felt like my fingers were balanced on top of a ball. Lol. And it sounded like a bass.

I use fairly light strings on my 5 string basses too. Only a .120 for the low B.


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[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

I’m intrigued by 7 and 8 strings. I’ll probably build myself a 7 string. I tried an Ibanez 8 string and didn’t like it much. The strings were too close together, and the bass strings too heavy! I felt like my fingers were balanced on top of a ball. Lol. And it sounded like a bass.

Definitely go for the 7 first. 10 minutes after you pick it up, you'll be completely used to it. I'd highly recommend getting a Japanese Ibanez from the late 90's, like an RG7420 or 7620 (7421/7621 for hard tail), a Universe, or a K7. Or grab one of the RG necks if you're building your own. I've owned a lot of 7 string guitars, and there's a reason that era of Ibanez is held in such high regard.

As far as the 8, I'd randomly picked up a handful of them over the years in GC or Sam Ash, and like you, always hated them. It wasn't until I got this Ibanez TAM10 that I started liking them. It's the cheaper Tosin Abasi model, but was still like $1200 new, and you know what that gets you from Ibanez. The neck is very comfortable, and the string spacing doesn't seem weird. Setup is a little trickier than a 6 or 7, and once strings get as heavy as the F#, you really start hearing the difference between brands. For instance, I've always been able to use GHS & D'Addario interchangeably, but the GHS .080" I tried sounded like a pile of mud and felt really loose. Because of the difference in construction, D'Addario's .074" feels much tighter and sounds much clearer. Mattias IA Eklundh uses a .065" tuned down to E on his 27" 8 string, so I'm going to experiment with going way lighter next time.

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

also, I'm heavy handed :lmao:

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

After spending years and years trying to figure out custom sets to make a guitar tuned down to C or B or whatever feel exactly like 10-46 in standard, it's occurred to me that lowered string tension is part of the sound I like with the low tunings.

My Schecter C-1 is in drop B with a 12-56 set. My PRS SE Custom 24 is in drop C with 10-52, with a half inch shorter scale, and sounds much clearer and just overall "better" to my ears.

No real point to this... just feel silly for taking this long to realize that.

Are you essentially making a baritone guitar out of a guitar that wasn’t designed in that way?
I’m intrigued how that works with the regular scale length? No issues?
I’d like to give this a shot with a LP Studio I have.

 

[ibanezrocks]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

I play in D standard and occasionally drop C with my Les Paul with a 10-52 set. No problem.

I used to use 11's in standard tuning on a longer scale. No idea why. It sounds better unplugged but it doesn't really come through the amp in a way that you can't just compensate with eq.

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[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

Are you essentially making a baritone guitar out of a guitar that wasn’t designed in that way?
I’m intrigued how that works with the regular scale length? No issues?
I’d like to give this a shot with a LP Studio I have.

I have a FirstAct guitar tuned down to open C, the Sound Garden tuning, CGCGGE, and it’s not bad at all. It’s a 25.5” scale. I have a set of D’Addario EXL 115, 11-49. They used 11-50 GHS set. When I first tuned it down it had a set of 10s on it. That actually wasn’t bad, but the bottom string could get a bit floppy. My band started doing a cover of Pretty Noose, so I used a spare guitar.

A slightly longer scale would help, but it’s totally playable.


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[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

also, I'm heavy handed :lmao:

So am I. I use a purple tortex 1.14mm pick. I bash my strings. I was primarily a bass player for the past 50 years so... lol

On guitar for leads I can’t do the things I do on heavier strings. They don’t respond to pull offs and little nuances I like to do. Just too stiff.


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[PFDarkside]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

I use 12-56 for drop C, and it’s tight, probably an 11-56 would work well for me.

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

Diehard 09-46 user here too, from Estd through drop-D to drop-C#, 25 1/2 scale. For going deeper I use a Digitech Drop pedal. Never had any problem.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

I have a FirstAct guitar tuned down to open C, the Sound Garden tuning, CGCGGE, and it’s not bad at all. It’s a 25.5” scale. I have a set of D’Addario EXL 115, 11-49. They used 11-50 GHS set. When I first tuned it down it had a set of 10s on it. That actually wasn’t bad, but the bottom string could get a bit floppy. My band started doing a cover of Pretty Noose, so I used a spare guitar.

A slightly longer scale would help, but it’s totally playable.


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Very cool.
I just may give this a try and see what happens.

Do you think it might work on my LP Studio if I went with maybe a
.12g set?

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

I use 12-56 for drop C, and it’s tight, probably an 11-56 would work well for me.

What scale length on that guitar?

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

Diehard 09-46 user here too, from Estd through drop-D to drop-C#, 25 1/2 scale. For going deeper I use a Digitech Drop pedal. Never had any problem.

My only issue with that pedal is that you can only drop so low before it sounds like mush and the latency is too much.
Maybe two or 3 clicks of the knob.
What your experience with it in that context?

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

Are you essentially making a baritone guitar out of a guitar that wasn’t designed in that way?
I’m intrigued how that works with the regular scale length? No issues?
I’d like to give this a shot with a LP Studio I have.

I have really mixed feelings about the longer scale lengths. Been into low tunings for over 20 years, and never had any of the problems people obsess over now. Yes, intonation is important. When you're tuning down to B and playing death metal, is perfect intonation above the 7th fret on the sixth string vital? For me, no.

I used to consider putting a 13-60 set on a regular guitar and tuning down to B a baritone. However, after spending some time with this 27" Ibanez, I'll concede that a baritone is its own thing. Your Les Paul with heavier strings tuned low will still sound like a guitar. Once the neck gets longer, that's when it gets that not-quite-a-bass tone.

At first, I'd recommend getting a 7 string set, then ditch the first string and tune B,E,A,D,F#,B. It'll feel very similar to regular tension and maintain the same intervals, so all your chord shapes and what-not will work.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

What scale length on that guitar?

25.5”

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

I have really mixed feelings about the longer scale lengths. Been into low tunings for over 20 years, and never had any of the problems people obsess over now. Yes, intonation is important. When you're tuning down to B and playing death metal, is perfect intonation above the 7th fret on the sixth string vital? For me, no.

I used to consider putting a 13-60 set on a regular guitar and tuning down to B a baritone. However, after spending some time with this 27" Ibanez, I'll concede that a baritone is its own thing. Your Les Paul with heavier strings tuned low will still sound like a guitar. Once the neck gets longer, that's when it gets that not-quite-a-bass tone.

At first, I'd recommend getting a 7 string set, then ditch the first string and tune B,E,A,D,F#,B. It'll feel very similar to regular tension and maintain the same intervals, so all your chord shapes and what-not will work.

25.5”

Cool
I’ll give that a shot with the LP and see what happens with the heavier strings.
I’m fairly certain I have a 7 string set somewhere.

It’s just basically to play a few songs in a cover band with.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Low tunings + low tension = good

I'm really curious about the Drop pedal. When I had a Whammy pedal, I'd use it to tune down a whole step, and it felt really awful because the speakers and the guitar were vibrating at different frequencies. Best way to describe it was it felt dead. Very little sustain, no controlled feedback, etc...

Does the Drop have these issues?