Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

[Rockstar216]

I currently have some noiseless high tension springs in the back of my trem. Not to say they I don't like them but at times I kind of dislike having to wrestle with my strings so my question is will regular tension springs or lower tension springs make my trem feel a bit looser and easier to bend strings? I'm currently using 10-46s and didn't really want to go down to 9's to get the feel and figured springs would make a bigger difference then string gauge.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

It would make no difference. Either way the spring tension will match string tension, just low tension springs would require an extra spring, tightening the springs, or both to match the string tension.

If you want to make bending easier without blocking the tremolo, I would recommend a Hipshot Tremsetter, but with that the arm is harder to move every time you leave the zero point (every time you begin to pull up or down). I think it also makes fluttering more difficult or less of an effect. The bar isn't ridiculously hard to move and it is not impossible to flutter with the tremsetter, it is just a simple trade-off.

 

[LReese]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Actually weaker springs would have a little more give, at the expense of having to compensate for the extra give when doing dubble-stops. I think it does make single strings slightly easier to bend.

Its a fulcrum - spring tension will = string tension (and any pressure/tension on the bar). Bend a string, other strings will slack slightly and the springs will tighten to compensate. Pick your poison.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Actually weaker springs would have a little more give, at the expense of having to compensate for the extra give when doing dubble-stops. I think it does make single strings slightly easier to bend.

Its a fulcrum - spring tension will = string tension (and any pressure/tension on the bar). Bend a string, other strings will slack slightly and the springs will tighten to compensate. Pick your poison.

Im familiar with the String = Spring stuff but I want the springs not so stiff. I've managed to pull off double stop bends pretty well for it not being a hard tail and I like the added stability the high tension springs offer but I want to try something different now and see how it feels.

 

[LReese]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

You got to give it a shot with the standard springs and decide how you like it.

Hard way is to get a shorter block.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

I use Schallers almost exclusively. They feel plush and sound great.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

I use Schallers almost exclusively. They feel plush and sound great.

They are basically the same except the radius at the bridge. Schallers have a 12" Radius my OFR has a 10" radius. I like my trem I just need to switch the springs or rearrange them in the cavity. Right now they are angled toward the middle of the claw.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Try a set of Raw Vintage springs. You may find you need to use one more spring than what you use now, but they will have the desired effect.

 

[LReese]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

I agree if RV is worth the scratch to you. Didn't I remember Gibson175 using 2 springs in his Strat? Don't know how many Rockstar is using.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

I agree if RV is worth the scratch to you. Didn't I remember Gibson175 using 2 springs in his Strat? Don't know how many Rockstar is using.

Right now i'm using Three. I couldn't get away with two on my Floyd. Maybe these new springs will be different.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

They are basically the same except the radius at the bridge. Schallers have a 12" Radius my OFR has a 10" radius. I like my trem I just need to switch the springs or rearrange them in the cavity. Right now they are angled toward the middle of the claw.

Schaller springs, dude.

Afaik, the Schaller Floyd is identical to OFR save for the cast baseplate and shorter string lock bolts. In fact, Schaller had been producing the OFR exclusively for 25(?) years, just until the appearance of the korean FRT-1000 series and Lockmeister trems.
The difference in the radius is due to a shim under the four middle saddles.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Schaller springs, dude.

Afaik, the Schaller Floyd is identical to OFR save for the cast baseplate and shorter string lock bolts. In fact, Schaller had been producing the OFR exclusively for 25(?) years, just until the appearance of the korean FRT-1000 series and Lockmeister trems.
The difference in the radius is due to a shim under the four middle saddles.

I didn't know they came with a shim under the saddles. I am planning to put some 2mm shims under my saddles to help get the bridge Radius to match up to my 10-16 compound radius neck so I can lower my action a bit and get a smoother feel.

I wish I would of just went with a straight 10" radius instead of the Compound neck.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Shimming is a small job but totally worth the cost. The more so, the bigger the radii mismatch.

If the fretboard curvature starts with 10" (though some nuts are 12") and ends with 16" at ¾ the scale length, the bridge should be set up to 18". I think that translates to 0.6 and 0.2 mm for the E and A/B strings, respectively. Take that as a guess rather than calculation.

A straight ten board is nice, too, but a different animal. Kind of "early Kramer" vs "Jackson".

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Shimming is a small job but totally worth the cost. The more so, the bigger the radii mismatch.

If the fretboard curvature starts with 10" (though some nuts are 12") and ends with 16" at ¾ the scale length, the bridge should be set up to 18". I think that translates to 0.6 and 0.2 mm for the E and A/B strings, respectively. Take that as a guess rather than calculation.

A straight ten board is nice, too, but a different animal. Kind of "early Kramer" vs "Jackson".

The shims are what is recommended over on the Warmoth forum when I looked and they said the same measurements that it would be around 18" and how many shims to put under each saddle. For a long time I wondered how could I get a smoother feel and lower action and I found the answer is shims under the saddles. Not that I mind the high action it's really the fact that it's a bit more work to play up the neck since the Radi is way off. Ill report back how well the shims work and how the neck plays afterwards.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Schaller springs, dude.

Afaik, the Schaller Floyd is identical to OFR save for the cast baseplate and shorter string lock bolts. In fact, Schaller had been producing the OFR exclusively for 25(?) years, just until the appearance of the korean FRT-1000 series and Lockmeister trems.
The difference in the radius is due to a shim under the four middle saddles.

Not entirely correct.

The Schaller has a slightly different baseplate geomentry, and needs to be mounted 1/16" closer to the nut as a result. This is why if feels a bit more "vintage" when using it, all other factors identical.

As far as the springs go, OFR /Schaller springs are about 25% "harder" and also have a slightly higher tension increase on extension. If you find them too stiff, try a set of "standard" V-trem springs. You will likely have to screw the claw further in (which will of course be a problem if you`re already hitting teh back of the cavity with it).

Alternatively, as has been previously stated, a shorter block will decease the leverage the springs have on the plate, resulting in a "softer" and more responsive feel. But that carries other (dis-) advantages with it as well.... especially if the back route is shallow and not angled.

BTW, just to clarify, Schaller still makes the Lockmeister (and the Schaller Floyd aka. FR II) and OFR, Ping makes the OEM FRT-1000 and identical Aftermarket Floyd Rose Special in IIRC Korea.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Yeah, I don't doubt you can play around the problem, but why not have the guitar set up to its full potential. Even with higher action it's nice to have consistency.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Not entirely correct.

The Schaller has a slightly different baseplate geomentry, and needs to be mounted 1/16" closer to the nut as a result. This is why if feels a bit more "vintage" when using it, all other factors identical.

As far as the springs go, OFR /Schaller springs are about 25% "harder" and also have a slightly higher tension increase on extension. If you find them too stiff, try a set of "standard" V-trem springs. You will likely have to screw the claw further in (which will of course be a problem if you`re already hitting teh back of the cavity with it).

Alternatively, as has been previously stated, a shorter block will decease the leverage the springs have on the plate, resulting in a "softer" and more responsive feel. But that carries other (dis-) advantages with it as well.... especially if the back route is shallow and not angled.

BTW, Schaller still makes the Lockmeister (formerly known as Schaller Floyd or FR II) and OFR, Ping makes the OEM FRT-1000 and identical Aftermarket Floyd Rose Special in IIRC Korea.

Changing my Block is not an option it's a big brass block 37mm and i'm planning on upgrading to a 37mm titanium block in a month or two. Ill look into the V-trem springs along with the RV springs. Although since I currently have high tension springs in right now going to regular springs might be enough of a difference.

This is what i'm using right now. http://www.fu-tone.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74&products_id=258

This was what I was looking into getting. http://www.fu-tone.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74&products_id=200

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

This is what i'm using right now. http://www.fu-tone.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74&products_id=258

This was what I was looking into getting. http://www.fu-tone.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74&products_id=200

Sorry, can`t comment on the springs themselves, because I always use either Fender or Schaller springs and a 1 sq inch piece of foam from a pickup box between springs and cavity instead. Much cheaper, same effect.

But from the description they provide, you`re on teh right track

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

Sorry, can`t comment on the springs themselves, because I always use either Fender or Schaller springs and a 1 sq inch piece of foam from a pickup box between springs and cavity instead. Much cheaper, same effect.

But from the description they provide, you`re on teh right track

I just found an old thread that some what helps with my issue https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?64220-Floyd-rose-3-springs-vs-5-springs

Ill try and see IF I can get away with two of my high tension springs and back the claw in a bit first and see if my Floyd becomes a bit looser, more responsive.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Lower tension trem springs for a floyd?

I'm sure you're right Zerb, but I was referring to parts, rather than design concepts.

Even then, stud placement can be tweaked to individual taste. The distance of saddles' position to bridge fulcrum axis works like a lever. The further backward the studs, the more forward the saddles, the shorter the string pull arm length, the smaller the torque the strings exert on the bridge, the tighter the arc the saddles move along = the easier goes the wang bar, but the smaller the pitch range. Basically, it's all fun until you run out of compensation space.

Isn't the Lockmeister just an OFR without the name, therefore corporate-trademark-ransom-free? I mean long, steel baseplate, thin locking bolts, rather than the shorter FR2 variant, which is still being called Schaller FR? I think it's just a consequence of the FR patent recent expiry. Go figure the Gotoh 1996T now says "High Stability Tremolo System" instead of "Licensed by Floyd Rose Patents".