LP standard humbucker tone issue

[zionstrat]

I had understood what you've explained.

My previous message was an (apparently clumsy) attempt to sum up the physical principles at work in this case : your pickups and their own cables have apparently a low parasitic capacitance. So, when you lower your volume, it flattens the resonant peak of your pickups. As this resonant peak is basically located in the high frequencies, the tone is duller.

If your pickups and their own cables had a higher parasitic capacitance, the resonant peak would still be there once the volume lowered. The sound would stay bright.

IOW, 50's wiring has a variable effect according to the electrical properties of the pickups themselves + their cables. It's annoyingly complex and it probably makes my posts boring but that's how physics affects our favorite toys, hence my attempts to share about that.

Below is a graphic simulation of what I meant. Upper red lines = response of a pickup with its 500k volume control full up. Black lines = the same pickup with its volume lowered (a few hours ago, I've shared the same graph on another site but for opposite reasons: a member was complaining about his tone as being too bright once the volume lowered with 50's wiring, which means that his pickups have probably a high parasitic capacitance)...

Big thanks, as always Freefrog- I always learn something!

 

[gimmieinfo]

You're saying parasitic capacitance in the pickup cables?

 

[freefrog]

You're saying parasitic capacitance in the pickup cables?

In their cables AND coils. I've worked on this question for a pickup winder.

 

[marcello252]

sum of it all, let's use old spiral cables to obtain the good ol' days vintage sound and response of the guitar

 

[freefrog]

FWIW, the capacitance of guitar cables has an influence on the behavior of 50's wiring BUT not the same influence than the capacitive load of the pickups + their own cables: one capacitive load is AFTER volume and tone pots. The other capacitive load is BEFORE these controls. It alters the resonant peak differently when the volume control is lowered.

 

[ToneFiddler]

I had understood what you've explained.

My previous message was an (apparently clumsy) attempt to sum up the physical principles at work in this case : your pickups and their own cables have apparently a low parasitic capacitance. So, when you lower your volume, it flattens the resonant peak of your pickups. As this resonant peak is basically located in the high frequencies, the tone is duller.

If your pickups and their own cables had a higher parasitic capacitance, the resonant peak would still be there once the volume lowered. The sound would stay bright.

IOW, 50's wiring has a variable effect according to the electrical properties of the pickups themselves + their cables. It's annoyingly complex and it probably makes my posts boring but that's how physics affects our favorite toys, hence my attempts to share about that.

Below is a graphic simulation of what I meant. Upper red lines = response of a pickup with its 500k volume control full up. Black lines = the same pickup with its volume lowered (a few hours ago, I've shared the same graph on another site but for opposite reasons: a member was complaining about his tone as being too bright once the volume lowered with 50's wiring, which means that his pickups have probably a high parasitic capacitance)...

cool, so having the lowest parasitic capacitance is not always brighter. In this case actually the higher capacitance will lead to a brighter tone when the volume is rolled down.
I myself never noticed a benefit from the 50s wiring when vol rolled down a bit. Sommer cable user myself. So maybe that's why!

 

[gimmieinfo]

cool, so having the lowest parasitic capacitance is not always brighter. In this case actually the higher capacitance will lead to a brighter tone when the volume is rolled down.
I myself never noticed a benefit from the 50s wiring when vol rolled down a bit. Sommer cable user myself. So maybe that's why!

I never did either when i have tried it in the past, but pretty sure that when i did i removed the treble bleed to see how it sounds on it's own and it didnt nothing i liked. This time i left the treble bleed and it worked great. But i ALSO found it only worked when i got the tone cap down to .01uf, a value few people would be using. With a .047 or .022 it didn't do anything much. So simply taking a guitar with no treble bleed and a typical tone cap value and just moving the tone lead to the volume wiper isn't going to do much. If anything it made things worse for me. But with the bleed and a tiny tone cap it has removed much of that congested mid that was there when i rolled the volume down and also changed the taper to what i much prefer. It's not perfect but it's far better. Being a perfectionist tho i probably won't stop here. Some more open pickups and/or some fine tuning of the caps is likely in order. But as it is now i can live with it whereas before i was very unhappy.