LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

I found that with 500k pots, Hovland caps, the C-5 can sound shrill on clean in the bridge.......but it is corrected by carefull use of the amp's treble and presence. My favorite was the Rio grande BBQ in the bridge.....like a fatter JB.

papersoul, so what is actually in your LP Standard now...Rio BBQ Bridge & ?

Also, so I should go for Orange drop caps & 500K pots except for bridge volume? Looks like I should go for the RS Kit that bryvincent posted as a link. That kit comes with Mallory caps though...

RS Kit and use my BB Pro's with A2's?....or just keep them stock with RS Kit?

This is getting to be confusing and quite a project now Thanks guys!

 

[NT02]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

Bryvincent
Thanks for the link for the electronics! I've struggled to figure out which pickups are best to slap in my LP in place of the stock ceramic 496r and 500t. Now I'm sitting here thinking I can try swapping out the mags and updrage the electronics. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

Sarcasm aside, what order do you (or anyone) recommend performing these mods? Find the pickups that rock, then fine tune with electronics? Replace electronics as a must for tone, then expirement with pickups?

This forum is awesome because of info like this.

 

[papersoul]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

papersoul, so what is actually in your LP Standard now...Rio BBQ Bridge & ?

Also, so I should go for Orange drop caps & 500K pots except for bridge volume? Looks like I should go for the RS Kit that bryvincent posted as a link. That kit comes with Mallory caps though...

RS Kit and use my BB Pro's with A2's?....or just keep them stock with RS Kit?

This is getting to be confusing and quite a project now Thanks guys!

I think you said your number one complaint was that the neck pickup was too muddy. I actually find mine to be fine and not muddy. I have my 2003 LP totally stock at the moment. I got carried away and started swapping everything before listening to what I had. I do agree that 500k pots are a good way to go, but in my case...naturally bright LP....I have settled on 300k for the bridge volume and may bump the neck volume to 500k. In your case, I would do this....replace all pots with CTS audio taper and .022 Orange drop caps. I would use 500k for all while having the bridge volume at or around 300k.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

OK...thanks papersoul!

Here's a twist...after doing some research and recommendations from Duncan & my guitar tech. They both agree on and suggest a '59 neck and Custom bridge, with CTS 500K pots...any thoughts about that?

The reason....These can cover alot bases if I want to go heavy, do blues or classic/southern rock. The Seth Lover/Antiquity are more specialized. I agree that it's better to have a little more in your back pocket and and roll off to achieve whatever tone/gain stage I want (for lack of better words) Always good to have a little more balls available than not enough...Hmmm....I may actually consider this now!

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

OK...thanks papersoul!

Here's a twist...after doing some research and recommendations from Duncan & my guitar tech. They both agree on and suggest a '59 neck and Custom bridge, with CTS 500K pots...any thoughts about that?

The reason....These can cover alot bases if I want to go heavy, do blues or classic/southern rock. The Seth Lover/Antiquity are more specialized. I agree that it's better to have a little more in your back pocket and and roll off to achieve whatever tone/gain stage I want (for lack of better words) Always good to have a little more balls available than not enough...Hmmm....I may actually consider this now!

I agree with the Custom at the bridge, but I wouldn't do the 59 in the neck. Let me tell you why.

What you're hearing right now coming out of the neck Burstbucker as muddiness is the alnico V magnet's bass response and scooped mids as opposed to alnico II or even alnico III. If you switch to the 59 at the neck, you will probably gain transparancy in the high end and the mids, but you will still perceive the low end as boomy or muddy.

This happened to me when I switched from the 490 set in my LP standard to a 59/JB combo. I later went to a PG set and am very happy with the neck sound.

Clean and clear with enough mids to play distorted leads with the neck pickup, enough output to play them with authority, and no mud/boominess. The APH, Seth Lover, and Antiquity will all do this. Remember, the 59 and al lof the pickups I mentioned for the neck are nothing more than different flavors of the basic PAF theme. Not one is more specialized than the other.

If anything, I'd go with the Jazz before going with a 59 in the neck slot of a LP.

My sincere advice, go with a neck pickup that's either wound for less bass response, or go with a neck humbucker that's built around an Alnico II magnet.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

I agree with the Custom at the bridge, but I wouldn't do the 59 in the neck. Let me tell you why.

What you're hearing right now coming out of the neck Burstbucker as muddiness is the alnico V magnet's bass response and scooped mids as opposed to alnico II or even alnico III. If you switch to the 59 at the neck, you will probably gain transparancy in the high end and the mids, but you will still perceive the low end as boomy or muddy.

This happened to me when I switched from the 490 set in my LP standard to a 59/JB combo. I later went to a PG set and am very happy with the neck sound.

Clean and clear with enough mids to play distorted leads with the neck pickup, enough output to play them with authority, and no mud/boominess. The APH, Seth Lover, and Antiquity will all do this. Remember, the 59 and al lof the pickups I mentioned for the neck are nothing more than different flavors of the basic PAF theme. Not one is more specialized than the other.

If anything, I'd go with the Jazz before going with a 59 in the neck slot of a LP.

My sincere advice, go with a neck pickup that's either wound for less bass response, or go with a neck humbucker that's built around an Alnico II magnet.

Benjy..thanks again, good point!...You know my guitar tech actually recommended the Jazz neck first. I think I almost talked him into the '59 to be honest with you. Thanks for the reminder! I think we all can agree on the Custom bridge, that's cool! I know you favor the PG neck, so what do you think about the PG neck vs. Jazz neck? My guitar tech also said there's nothing wimpy about the Jazz neck, that's actually what Randy Rhoads used.

 

[jpage]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

I find the BB pro's to be some of the best LP pu's I've heard. Nice, chimey top end and plenty of clarity when pushed. Many posters here are into very heavy music and are used to higher output pickups that tend to cut the highs and accentuate the lower end of the tone spectrum. That is, in my opinion of course, is why the consensus on this board will be that they are "thin" and "weak". I have played a few older Pauls w/orig PAFs (poorly ) and , although each seemed a bit different, they all seemed to have about the same output as the BB Pro's.

I guess if you play heavy music, they might not be great but for good old fashioned rock and roll, I think they beat my Pearly Gates, the JBs and the 490's hands down.

 

[papersoul]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

OK...thanks papersoul!

Here's a twist...after doing some research and recommendations from Duncan & my guitar tech. They both agree on and suggest a '59 neck and Custom bridge, with CTS 500K pots...any thoughts about that?

The reason....These can cover alot bases if I want to go heavy, do blues or classic/southern rock. The Seth Lover/Antiquity are more specialized. I agree that it's better to have a little more in your back pocket and and roll off to achieve whatever tone/gain stage I want (for lack of better words) Always good to have a little more balls available than not enough...Hmmm....I may actually consider this now!

If you think the bridge pickup is bright enough...maybe consider keeping the bridge at 300k for volume.

I find the Custom a little cold and hard but that is me. Maybe the C-5??

The C-5 and JB are warmer in my opinion.

The Pearly Gates neck is apparently a good choice and if I end up Duncan in my LP, it will be the C-5/PGn.

I may end up trying True Tone pickups and will let you all know the results.

What jpage said is true but the BB Pros are aggressive and feel/sound hotter than the specs indicate. I think they actually do clean to mean well, including modern heavy music. I am looking for something similar but with a touch more warmth, thickness, smoothness, and maybe output. Just a touch though......

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

I think I am definitely leaning towards the PG neck like Benjy suggested. In fact, that was my initial, initial choice.

I think the JB is great, but I think the Custom would actually sound a little more fuller according to the tone chart. C-5 sounds good too, but I'm not really considering it at all right now.

 

[bryvincent]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

personally, i don't like pickups with A5 magnets. i just can't stand the piercing highs and big lows.with the stock BB pros, i find them bright even with the stock 300k pots so changing the pots to 500k will only make it brighter and a little harsh with the stock BB pros. so by changing the mags to A2 there's less bass and you lose a little of the highs but you compensate that by switching to 500k pots.500k pots is a must if you have HBs with A2.with the BBpros with A2 and 500k pots, your LP will sound smoother and sweeter without being dull. at least in my experience. every guitar is different so try experimenting.

PGs and BBs are similar pickups-A2 mags, uneven windings , same type of wire- so they probably will sound similar too.

NT02
i suggest upgrading the electronics first if you have crappy electronics.you can hear the true potential of a pickup with the right electronics, you may even like your stock pickups and no need to change it after upgrading your electronics.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

:smack:

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

I was looking at the project for changing magnets...I don't think I can handle that....so now what? I guess I have to go back to the replacement pickups plan. Sorry...thanks for your great help bryvincent.

So...PG neck & Custom Bridge

PG set or???

 

[bryvincent]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

Is this what I need?

Bar magnets A2/Ceramic (.13x.50x2.50 ) ea

And this?

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=31
(True Tone Kit) Modern or 50's style wiring?

Just want to make sure. Thanks!

I was looking at the project for changing magnets...I don't think I can handle that....so now what? I guess I have to go back to the replacement pickups plan. Sorry...thanks for your great help bryvincent.

yup!
if i were you, i'll try the magnet swap and just buy the pickups if you screw up. but if you decide to just buy aftermarket pickups, a PG set is a good choice.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

yup!
if i were you, i'll try the magnet swap and just buy the pickups if you screw up. but if you decide to just buy aftermarket pickups, a PG set is a good choice.

Thanks alot bryvincent!

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

So...PG neck & Custom Bridge???

PG set or???

BUMP

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

Benjy..thanks again, good point!...You know my guitar tech actually recommended the Jazz neck first. I think I almost talked him into the '59 to be honest with you. Thanks for the reminder! I think we all can agree on the Custom bridge, that's cool! I know you favor the PG neck, so what do you think about the PG neck vs. Jazz neck? My guitar tech also said there's nothing wimpy about the Jazz neck, that's actually what Randy Rhoads used.

The Jazz is a great pickup also, but it will have more top end than the PG and will have less mids which make it a cleaner sounding, chimier pickup than the Pearly. It's not wimpy by any means, but the PGn will be more muscular and thicker sounding than the Jazz in all situations. Also, if you plan on splitting the humbuckers ( I do on my LP), the PG will have a bigger split tone than the Jazz, provided you use the hotter coil.

 

[Troy T. Blues]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

The Jazz is a great pickup also, but it will have more top end than the PG and will have less mids which make it a cleaner sounding, chimier pickup than the Pearly. It's not wimpy by any means, but the PGn will be more muscular and thicker sounding than the Jazz in all situations. Also, if you plan on splitting the humbuckers ( I do on my LP), the PG will have a bigger split tone than the Jazz, provided you use the hotter coil.

Benjy...very cool! As of right now I'm thinking of getting the PGn & Custom bridge. I actually do want to split them as well.

I believe the PGn will be an improvement over the BB Pro (Alnico V) neck. Also, what do you think about the Custom bridge as opposed to a PGb? I think the Custom would be a great bridge pup. What do you think of this overall combo according to what I'm looking for? Thanks!

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

I love the Custom for a versatile, if somewhat compressed sound. It does really good for hard rock/metal styles, but I keep coming back to the Pearly Gates set for a more classic combo. The Custom will be fatter and more compressed while the PG will be more open sounding and softer in the highs and lows.


Either way you won't go wrong with either pickup. It just depends on how hot you want to go. :burnout:

 

[NT02]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

Bryvincent

Thanks again for the info and the link for the electronics. I'm checking out the premium production electronic upgrade kit. Think I'll do this before buying an APH-1 neck and comparable bridge pu (undecided on good match, CC?), or a set of Seth Lovers. I imagine a person would spend most of their time dialed down in volume with 500k pots, while still retaining good tone, and dialed up for those "cut-through" moments? Took a peak inside my LP last night, and all I saw was GIBSON on the pots and a loose green wire from my switch. Funny, it seems to have no affect on the tone. I really hope that changing electronics and pickups will open this guitar up, cause right now it just sounds like a muffled, muddy piece of way too thick wood.

 

[papersoul]

Re: LP Standard - SD Pups vs. BB Pro's - Suggestions Please....

I don't think you could say that all Alnico V pickups have harsh or piercing highs as that is not the case with Rio Grande pickups in my experience.