LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

The second part will be up soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=154DkVycCVk


Never did any sort of demo so apologies if it's long. Tried to do plenty of coil tap and volume roll offs (and annotate them). Even listening back to this one, the bridge doesn't sound that bad. But, in the next part, you should see how it kinda chokes out when put in a mix.

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

And part 2!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEpc9toJRDM

The demon feels crushingly heavy for rhythm, and really shows how flat and "mushy" the stock bridge pup sounds. It doesn't sound terrible but by comparison doesn't have that sparkle or edge.

Both tracks have exactly the same settings. The amp, nor any mixing was done to the guitars. I'm temped to "fix" the bridge guitars in the mix, but I'm reminded that every time I do that, they end up sounding overproduced and more often than not, just wonky and weird. (an example of that here, at 3:50 https://soundcloud.com/mike-rodio-1/prisms-2016).

So all this does for me is confirm that a new bridge pickup is needed. Probably a Black Winter, but whatever it is, I'll record and document the results just like I did above.

Oh and that out of phase middle position sure does sound cool. I wouldnt mind keeping that sound, but that'll probably change a bit with a new bridge pickup.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Great review of the Demon in neck position, which I happened to be considering. Nice mix of clean and heavy sounds with good playing and tone throughout.

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Great review of the Demon in neck position, which I happened to be considering. Nice mix of clean and heavy sounds with good playing and tone throughout.

Thanks! My first time demoing anything so I tried to cover all the ground I could.

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Gonna grab a pair of monitors before I pick up a Black Winter. Sick of using headphones and TV speakers definitely don't cut it.

I also had an idea for some kind of onboard boost circuit. Considering the Demon in the neck is lower output and there's a considerable volume drop off even with the stock pickup in the bridge. I already have a coil tap on the tone knob, which I like. So is there a way to have a push/pull on the volume knob, or is this something I'd have to install a switch for? And is it even something that's doable?

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Kind of a necro post, but I'm getting back to this.

Ordering a Black Winter for the bridge, but before I do that I'm gonna totally tear apart the guitar. New electronics, locking tuners, paint, bridge (maybe) etc.

Gonna try to go for a "barn door" type matte finish, with iron acetate, which might be tricky on Mahogany. This weekend I'll be testing some wood to see what I can come up with and I could post pics if anyone's interested.

Here's kind of what I'm going for:

http://www.barnboardstore.com/resources/Joe Perry Guitar.jpg

Once that's all taken care of, I'll drop the pickups in and be sure to have pics and a demo up.

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Another picture for reference of what I'm going for in terms of look:

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Mini update: got so sanding and that's definitely not mahogany under there. It's a pale wood with a slightly similar grain pattern to mahogany, and way too light to be mahogany. Pics to follow soon.

Also I hade a thought about this iron acetate finish. Since it's just vinegar and steel wool, wouldnt that eventually start to rot the wood? At least that's what I was told by a few people; I'm not entirely convinced there's going to be enough vinegar put on the wood itself to cause that to happen though.

Either way, not much sanding left to do, just the neck and sides. And I'll be ordering a Black Winter tomorrow night which will give me a kick in the ass to get this whole process moving a bit faster.

 

[Mincer]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

This sounds like a great project. Love to see pics of the process.

As far as it hurting the wood, that depends on the wood. I would believe it would hurt some woods, but not others...did you ever figure out what wood you have?

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

This sounds like a great project. Love to see pics of the process.

As far as it hurting the wood, that depends on the wood. I would believe it would hurt some woods, but not others...did you ever figure out what wood you have?

I'm still really not too sure on the wood. In some spots I've broke through this "pore fill" layer and it's definitely a light wood. I'm using a 5 inch disc sander with 60 grit sandpaper and it's leaving the exposed wood kind of "fuzzy" and not really super rough. Not sure if that's the cheap Harbor Freight sandpaper or just the nature of the wood.

At this point that pore fill layer (I'm not sure if it's actually a pore fill or not) is proving pretty hard to break through. So I'm thinking I'll be lazy; just leave it and stain over it. The only parts the bare wood shows are on the high spots on certain contours, so it could end up looking cool.

I'm still hesitant on the vinegar finish as of now, but I think I'm gonna test some stains out on the back and see what kind of results I can get.

I'll get some in progress pics up this weekend.

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

So here's a couple pics.

The first thing I did was test out the iron acetate solution on a mahogany Epiphone Thunderbird body I've had kicking around.

^This is a second application of the solution when it was still wet. Ideally, this is what I'd want to to look like when I'm finished. I'm thinking maybe sealing it with some kind of oil would get me close to this as a finished result?

^Two or three layers after the solution "brewed" for about 8 or so hours. I rubbed a little lemon oil over top after it dried and this is where it got me. So I'm thinking a few proper oil finishes will get me to the previous photo where it was still wet.

^So now to the LTD. Notice the SD Demon already in the neck. This is one of the last pics of it before I went to work. It's also the first time I'm disassembling a perfectly functioning guitar, so lets hope I don't miss it this way.

^Not gonna bore anyone with pictures of a guitar with no parts on it, so skipping right to the sanding. Note this is not the bare wood. This is that layer I talked about earlier. I keep calling it a "pore fill" but I'm not sure thats what it actually is. I know its not an oil finish and I know its pretty smooth, unlike bare wood would be.

^Here's the bare wood showing through on the high spots of the contours. Like I said before, I'm really doubting this is traditional mahogany. To me it's too light, but I'm not an expert. So if anyone knows anything about wood, especially what Asian guitar makers use typically, I'd love to learn more. (This LTD 256 was made in Vietnam btw.)

^and this is where I left off today. Before this I had it down past the poly, but not through the red stain yet and it was a very nice satin feel. But I figure a red neck and a grey body might look a bit funny. I'm gonna just go down to the "pore fill" layer on the neck, simply because I don't trust my self to be even handed enough on bare wood on the neck.


SO I'm gonna whip up some more of that iron acetate solution and apply it to the back of this guitar, cover a part of the "pore fill" layer and an exposed wood section. I'm gonna see how it takes and if it does what I *think* it might do I'll do the whole thing like that. The contours being exposed might make a cool effect.





Or it might look like garbage. We'll see. :biglaugh:

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

So what I was afraid was gonna happen, happened. The stain took nicely; but only to the exposed wood. That sealer layer just rejected anything I put on it, even grey paint didnt wanna stay. Kinda bummed because I wanted to be done sanding this weekend, but oh well. Just gonna have to drag it out another week or so.

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Time for an update: and not an exciting one unfortunately.

I had two trips to the ER and have been diagnosed with colitis. I'll spare everyone the details but basically my motivation and ability to keep working on this has plummeted. Which is disappointing, but okay. My only worry is that now that's even more time that the neck isn't gonna have tension on it and I'd hate for it to get warped beyond use after all that work.

Would anyone recommend putting the tuners and bridge back on and just tossing on some strings for now?

Thanks ahead of time guys.


P.S. The Black Winter came in the mail!

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Got back to work on this. Sanded and stained, gonna do an oil finish hopefully tomorrow or even tonight.

Update pictures coming tonight.

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

So for anyone wondering, I've recovered from whatever was wrong with me almost completely. Which means I got back to work on this as soon as I could. I'll jump right to the pictures:

Ended up getting off that "pore fill" layer and eventually got from 60 grit up to 150. Have to give credit to my Father for helping me out here when I was sick.

Here we get it down to 320 and hit it with a tact cloth. This was just before staining and I'll be honest, I was thinking of skipping the stain and going right to an oil finish. But that would defeat the purpose of this project wouldn't it? So on to the stain.

So after one or two coats this is what the result was. It was slightly darker in person, but I really liked it this way. It kind of reminded me of an old pirate ship, or a pier or something. Forgot to mention I left that "pore fill" layer on the neck. I thought it would make it more prone to shifting if I took it off, but ultimately it was already really smooth and I didn't want to risk messing up the profile or anything.

Now here's where it gets weird. This morning I wanted to kind of fill in some of the gaps in the stain, because there were some splotchy spots. So i put on a very light layer and let it sit and well, it got pretty dark. Almost brown. I sanded it ever so slightly with 600 grit and it lighted back up a bit again. So a few hours later I put on a coat of finishing oil from Crimson guitars. And now it's definitely brown. I'm not upset because it actually looks really nice, however it's basically exactly like my Les Paul now.

Either way not a huge deal. In a few hours the oil will be due for another coat and I'll either put another coat on, leave it, or sand a little away and see what happens. I'll slap in a picture of my Les Paul for reference on color.

Promise pickups will be in eventually, (this is a pickup forum after all) and with that will come a full demo like I did earlier in the thread. Promise!

 

[_Gob]

Re: LTD viper-256 (total overhaul, Screamin' Demon)

Decided not to re-sand/re-stain. Just hit it with some 400 grit to give it a bit more of a distressed look, and then up to 600 to smooth it out some more.

Threw it all back together with no issue, surprisingly the neck wasn't all out of whack either. Although it's had strings on it for two or three days now, so it's still adjusting, but no major issues.

The pickups went in easy, actually surprised myself with my solder job. Apart from one sloppy joint, it was all working perfectly. The Black Winter was "stuck" on single coil mode because of that joint, but a quick re solder fixed it right away.

I'm pretty sure taking that poly finish off had some effect because there is way more detail in the demon in the neck. Maybe that's the new strings or the pickup height, but it definitely has a bit more detail in the upper frequencies and a bit more of an "organic" sound than before.

I'm gonna let the neck settle before I record anything, because no doubt it'll keep shifting for a while, especially with the weather cooling down and all. By this weekend or next week I plan on recording a demo for you all, in the same style as before.