Lucille wiring issue..

astrozombie

astrozombie

KatyPerryologist
This guitar is being a major pain in the ass.

Pic-12232012-002.jpg

it has the varitone setup, with both a neck pickup and bridge pickup output for stereo operation.

the "neck" output is also the mono output, which means if only one of them is used it provides standard operation, the selector switch does just that, gives you both options.

the bridge pickup wont work when used through that output.


however, plugging into the bridge pickup only output works fine.

what gives?

i havent looked too much into it since theres a **** load of cables in there..
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

I am not sure how these are wired, but when I borrowed my cousin-in-law's '67 ES-345 stereo for a few years, I know for sure that I needed to buy a special stereo-to-mono 1/4 inch cable to use it in mono (i.e. "normal").
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

You've got a loose wire or bad connection between the bridge PU and the mono jack. Start looking at the easy-to-access places first. You just may have to get in there and root out the problem. You'd think having a back plate would make things easier, but with a varitone crammed in there, it's pretty crowded. I much prefer working on F hole guitars.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

Guess what? My Epi Lucille is doing that too. At first, I thought that it was due to my repeatedly changing the pickups. Now, I suspect something in the jack socket area.

For the uninitiated, the Lucille model has a removable backplate. Beneath this is a PCB that does the Vari-Tone thang for rather less money than a proper wafer rotary switch.

The twin output jacks should switch between "stereo" and mono operation when a second jack plug is connected. Each pickup should be fed directly to its respective socket when two amplifiers are in use.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

Funkfingers;3343015The twin output jacks... "stereo"...Each pickup should be fed directly to its respective socket when two amplifiers are in use.[/QUOTE said:
And what a useless option that is. Who wants to lug around a separate amp for each PU? This is even more pointless than a varitone. I'm a BB fan; Lucilles are pretty guitars, but loaded with things very few players ever use (let's not forget the fine-tune tailpiece).
Click to expand...
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

Agreed. There are very few practical applications for the pseudo stereophonic wiring in an electric guitar. Recording might be one place BUT Gibson invented the Vari-Tone in the nineteen fifties when almost all recording was direct to lathe mono. Les Paul had not gone public with his multi-track recorder.

To my mind, the idea of Vari-Tone was to allow session musicians to dial up a range of sounds without needing to carry a truckload of instruments. Most of the presets are dreary sounding crud BUT this makes them useful for making a rhythm guitar part sit in a band mix without detracting from the lead vocal and soloist(s).

Direct-To-Mono recording, big ensembles, live vocals. That's right, folks. The Vari-Tone circuit belongs in the Fifties.

The PCB incarnation of the stereo Vari-Tone wiring harness found in the Epiphone Lucille is not without its uses. Through overdriven valve amplification, one of the presets does a fine Michael Schenker "cocked wah" tone.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

If you're having issues with the wiring open it up and blow the control cavity clean first...look for dust, chunks of saw dust, dried pieces of glue or anything that might be caught in the switch or one of the jacks...anything like that can cause issues and in Epi guitars it's rather common.

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blueman335 said:
And what a useless option that is. Who wants to lug around a separate amp for each PU? This is even more pointless than a varitone. I'm a BB fan; Lucilles are pretty guitars, but loaded with things very few players ever use (let's not forget the fine-tune tailpiece).
Click to expand...

This is why Gibson/Epiphone now give the player a mono option...when they stated the stereo wiring there was no mono option.

Another point...it is a signature guitar so it wasn't designed to make sense and be useful to every clown shoe on a guitar forum across the nation, it was designed to be useful for BB King.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

the guy who invented fire said:
If you're having issues with the wiring open it up and blow the control cavity clean first...look for dust, chunks of saw dust, dried pieces of glue or anything that might be caught in the switch or one of the jacks...anything like that can cause issues and in Epi guitars it's rather common.

- - - Updated - - -






This is why Gibson/Epiphone now give the player a mono option...when they stated the stereo wiring there was no mono option.

Another point...it is a signature guitar so it wasn't designed to make sense and be useful to every clown shoe on a guitar forum across the nation, it was designed to be useful for BB King.
Click to expand...

which is hilarious because he does not use the fine tuners or the varitone.

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Funkfingers said:
Guess what? My Epi Lucille is doing that too. At first, I thought that it was due to my repeatedly changing the pickups. Now, I suspect something in the jack socket area.

For the uninitiated, the Lucille model has a removable backplate. Beneath this is a PCB that does the Vari-Tone thang for rather less money than a proper wafer rotary switch.

The twin output jacks should switch between "stereo" and mono operation when a second jack plug is connected. Each pickup should be fed directly to its respective socket when two amplifiers are in use.
Click to expand...

i don't understand this at all, all I did was tighten that jack's nut because it went loose and fell off. I'm just going to take everything out and see if anything looks fishy.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

Over-tightening either of the jack sockets would be enough to physically break a solder joint on, say, a short electrical link between the two sockets. This, in turn, would disable the switching aspect of the circuit.

The "stereo" aspect of the Lucille wiring reminds me a little of Rick-O-Sound dual jack socket wiring. On bass guitar, it is wiser to think of the circuit for dual amp rigs à la Billy Sheehan. One amp provides the main sound. The second blends in the distorted and/or sub-bass element when required.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

the guy who invented fire said:
Another point...it is a signature guitar so it wasn't designed to make sense and be useful to every clown shoe on a guitar forum across the nation, it was designed to be useful for BB King.
Click to expand...

Yes, a signature guitar, but I suspect BB just wanted a high-end one, so he picked a 345/355 type with all the bells and whistles, probably more for bling than actual use. I believe there was a Gibson non-F hole semihollow in the 1960's/1970, made in small quantities, which he chose for the body design. Rather than anything really customized, Lucilles seem to be just a collection of old Gibson features.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

I used to own a 1960 ES-355. Stereo, varitone, the whole bit. I took it apart, disconnected all the stereo and varitone stuff and rewired it like an ES-335.

De-valued it I suppose, but it sure made it easier to use and it sounded much better.

Figured I'd never sell it anyway. It was the guitar I planned to keep for a life time.

Until some bikers moved in next door and within a couple of weeks broke into my home while I was at work and stole it.

Heartbreaking! Never saw it again.

They missed my '63 Strat thank goodness. Still have it.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

astrozombie said:
This guitar is being a major pain in the ass.

View attachment 36603

it has the varitone setup, with both a neck pickup and bridge pickup output for stereo operation.

the "neck" output is also the mono output, which means if only one of them is used it provides standard operation, the selector switch does just that, gives you both options.

the bridge pickup wont work when used through that output.


however, plugging into the bridge pickup only output works fine.

what gives?

i havent looked too much into it since theres a **** load of cables in there..
Click to expand...

I am not a wiring expert but it is my understanding that with these guitars(any stereo Gibson/Epiphone), they require a stereo chord. Back in the day you could run the guitars cable into two amps and get a stereo signal. I know that if you pull the chord out of the jack partially you can get it to work in mono and both pickups will work, but that is impractical. Get a stereo cable and you should be fine.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

Bludave said:
I am not a wiring expert but it is my understanding that with these guitars(any stereo Gibson/Epiphone), they require a stereo chord. Back in the day you could run the guitars cable into two amps and get a stereo signal. I know that if you pull the chord out of the jack partially you can get it to work in mono and both pickups will work, but that is impractical. Get a stereo cable and you should be fine.
Click to expand...

Eggs Actly.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

I think what hasn't been clear about this whole thing is the fact that there is one output jack designed for MONO operation, it enables you to use both pickups as if it were a 335. my problem is that said jack isn't working for both pickups, just the neck pickup (which is it's stereo purpose... but not it's mono purpose.) i ended up making the stereo jack work with both pickups by making it so that both "teeth" touch the cables tip.. but the guitar isn't working properly and I should be able to figure this out, I've been sick lately and doing lots of home recording and it's a pain in the butt that the outputs don't work how they are supposed to.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

Bludave said:
I am not a wiring expert but it is my understanding that with these guitars(any stereo Gibson/Epiphone), they require a stereo chord. Back in the day you could run the guitars cable into two amps and get a stereo signal. I know that if you pull the chord out of the jack partially you can get it to work in mono and both pickups will work, but that is impractical. Get a stereo cable and you should be fine.
Click to expand...

That's right. The way it was on the old one I had, you needed not just a stereo cable, but stereo on one end and mono on the other. Perhaps that is because the amp I was using at the time didn't accept a stereo plug; some amps may, in which case stereo to stereo jacks would be fine. The question at hand is whether the new ones are wired just like the old ones.

B.B. doesn't change his Vari-Tone, but I believe he does use it, on the 2nd position if I remember right.

Unlike most, I think the stereo outputs and Vari-Tone are great features. They don't need to be used if you don't want to use them...and the customization ability offered by the six-way switch opens up a whole world of options. I dunno. While I prefer each pickup to have its own tone knob, I do prefer master tone switching over a master tone knob. Comes from playing an Esquire as my main guitar, and learning to love that front switch position, I suppose. I think the Lucilles are the best featured thinline semis ever produced by Gibson. I was glad when Epi released the 345 with the stereo wiring and Vari-Tone too.
 
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Re: Lucille wiring issue..

Okay, folks. I'm going to spare yez the lecture on normalising jack sockets. Suffice to say that, on my Epi, strategic applications of electro-lubricant contact cleaner have done the trick.
 
Re: Lucille wiring issue..

Vintage Stereo Gibsons did/do require a Y cord to use in mono but that was "corrected" years ago with a slightly different wiring set up, the "neck" out if used alone is mono.

As for the Varitone, BB does uses it, all the time in fact...he rarely changes it but his tone can't really be had w/o a Varitone.

Fine Tuners...he used 'em several times last time I saw him...just saying.
 
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