Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
- Thread starter rami93
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gregory
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
And also not particularly useful when trying to make an informed decision when making a purchase as a direct consequence, as the difference in opinion over the term mud in this very discussion so clearly illustrates.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
I never claimed to speak for you or anyone else. Whether a JB2 is an improvement would subjectively depend on the guitar, the wiring, the amp, and clearly is your subjective opinion, so maybe you should keep your subjective opinions to yourself as well.
I never claimed to speak for you or anyone else. Whether a JB2 is an improvement would subjectively depend on the guitar, the wiring, the amp, and clearly is your subjective opinion, so maybe you should keep your subjective opinions to yourself as well.
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
More attack and presence on low strings does nothing bad for cleans on the JB, very much the opposite. And it's usually low strings where mud is the most problematic.
I'm less certain it'd be an improvement for high strings, but the JB's piercing qualities are from upper mids, not treble/presence. So while bite/attack does change the JB's attack, it doesn't reinforce the problems. Likely why all-screw versions of the JB are popular in some circles, too... Though those are often A2 as well. UOA5 and even moreso A2 will reinforce smooth/legato/liquid feel. The altered attack from the A2 is likely to frustrate thrash rhythm guitarists, though. A2 does reduce the upper-mid spike, but it doesn't do away with it entirely, just softens and broadens it, usually enough to make it work with a guitar or amp that doesn't like that aspect of it.
As far as what an A2 JB sounds like, Warren DeMartini of Ratt has used slightly overwound A2 JBs for a long time. A2 JB still sounds like a JB, just less piercing, more even mids. A2 JB is a little like a Custom Custom, but not quite as buttery.
More attack and presence on low strings does nothing bad for cleans on the JB, very much the opposite. And it's usually low strings where mud is the most problematic.
I'm less certain it'd be an improvement for high strings, but the JB's piercing qualities are from upper mids, not treble/presence. So while bite/attack does change the JB's attack, it doesn't reinforce the problems. Likely why all-screw versions of the JB are popular in some circles, too... Though those are often A2 as well. UOA5 and even moreso A2 will reinforce smooth/legato/liquid feel. The altered attack from the A2 is likely to frustrate thrash rhythm guitarists, though. A2 does reduce the upper-mid spike, but it doesn't do away with it entirely, just softens and broadens it, usually enough to make it work with a guitar or amp that doesn't like that aspect of it.
As far as what an A2 JB sounds like, Warren DeMartini of Ratt has used slightly overwound A2 JBs for a long time. A2 JB still sounds like a JB, just less piercing, more even mids. A2 JB is a little like a Custom Custom, but not quite as buttery.
gregory
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Hi,
I like to be able to get a clean, BB King like tone whenever I want. The JB I had was a 1 trick pony, I tried every mag I had, turned the amp down, a clean Princeton Reverb, lowered the pickup, the poles, raised the poles and dropped the p'up. Nothing I did ever got rid of that fuzz.
I have high wound p'ups that can do it like the 59/Custom Hybrid, or a medium to low wind like Seth Lovers, or even a fairly sharp high end Jazzbridge. HOWEVER: I can take these great p'ups and make them sound like Cream or Jeff Beck or Angus or (put any name here) with a twist of the amp volume and one or two of the hundreds of boost and gain pedals available though any decent 20 watt tube amp. In my case for stage, a Blues Jr. (15-18 watts), or a Hot Rod Deluxe (40 watts). IMHO.
Steve Buffington
Hi,
I like to be able to get a clean, BB King like tone whenever I want. The JB I had was a 1 trick pony, I tried every mag I had, turned the amp down, a clean Princeton Reverb, lowered the pickup, the poles, raised the poles and dropped the p'up. Nothing I did ever got rid of that fuzz.
I have high wound p'ups that can do it like the 59/Custom Hybrid, or a medium to low wind like Seth Lovers, or even a fairly sharp high end Jazzbridge. HOWEVER: I can take these great p'ups and make them sound like Cream or Jeff Beck or Angus or (put any name here) with a twist of the amp volume and one or two of the hundreds of boost and gain pedals available though any decent 20 watt tube amp. In my case for stage, a Blues Jr. (15-18 watts), or a Hot Rod Deluxe (40 watts). IMHO.
Steve Buffington
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Parallel is probably the best option here, but I never heard a clean JB described as muddy. Thin like an AM radio, but that same sound makes it great with distortion. The clean sound from a JB is...well, that's why they make neck pickups.
Parallel is probably the best option here, but I never heard a clean JB described as muddy. Thin like an AM radio, but that same sound makes it great with distortion. The clean sound from a JB is...well, that's why they make neck pickups.
DavidRavenMoon
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Played clean all you get is mud. They have a very muted top end because of all that wire wound on them.
Even distorted you are hearing upper midrange. Not treble.
To the OP, try wiring the JB up so you can switch it into parallel. It will be much cleaner and brighter.
If you want to swap magnets, use a ceramic 8. Pickup makers started using ceramic magnets on over wound pickups because they give a brighter tone. This is due to the stronger field and lower inductance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Played clean all you get is mud. They have a very muted top end because of all that wire wound on them.
Even distorted you are hearing upper midrange. Not treble.
To the OP, try wiring the JB up so you can switch it into parallel. It will be much cleaner and brighter.
If you want to swap magnets, use a ceramic 8. Pickup makers started using ceramic magnets on over wound pickups because they give a brighter tone. This is due to the stronger field and lower inductance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
I wasn't expecting this many replies. Thank you every one!
I've used the JB for over 6 years and when I built this guitar it was my first choice. The guitar is essentially a one pickup guitar, I just put a duckbucker with a parallel/series on the neck for extra tones but I only use it for extra quack. I have push/pull split on the JB but I'm not happy with those cleans either. The only reason I like the JB are the leads.
By what I have gathered from your replies it seems I will have to change pickups. I am looking for something that does excellent cleans as from my experience that gives a good palette which can then be molded with EQ and amp settings versus having a pickup designed for one thing.
I wasn't expecting this many replies. Thank you every one!
I've used the JB for over 6 years and when I built this guitar it was my first choice. The guitar is essentially a one pickup guitar, I just put a duckbucker with a parallel/series on the neck for extra tones but I only use it for extra quack. I have push/pull split on the JB but I'm not happy with those cleans either. The only reason I like the JB are the leads.
By what I have gathered from your replies it seems I will have to change pickups. I am looking for something that does excellent cleans as from my experience that gives a good palette which can then be molded with EQ and amp settings versus having a pickup designed for one thing.
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
The JB was never known for cleans...this is true. My vote would be the 59/Custom Hybrid, which has excellent cleans and is still dynamic when distorted. It is one of my favorite bridge pickups.
The JB was never known for cleans...this is true. My vote would be the 59/Custom Hybrid, which has excellent cleans and is still dynamic when distorted. It is one of my favorite bridge pickups.
KNUCKLHEAD
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
OP rami93 , I would toss the JB and not try to rebuild it into another pickup - if it were me . There are just too many other choices around . I quit with them years ago , but if I wanted to try something from them evolved a bit , I'd prolly try what D said . I like what DRM said but I wouldn't rebuild the JB ~ myself . Mincers 59/Custom Hybrid may suffice You and I'm wondering if they'll make that in A8 ? could be very nice
OP rami93 , I would toss the JB and not try to rebuild it into another pickup - if it were me . There are just too many other choices around . I quit with them years ago , but if I wanted to try something from them evolved a bit , I'd prolly try what D said . I like what DRM said but I wouldn't rebuild the JB ~ myself . Mincers 59/Custom Hybrid may suffice You and I'm wondering if they'll make that in A8 ? could be very nice
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Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
My ASAT Deluxe has the TB-4/'59 neck combo with 250K tone and volume pots. I finally figured out to use the coil split for 95% of my clean tones, and then simply switching to HB mode for solos. With the 250K pots it's thick and meaty and round without the treble spike some hate.
Never tried a mag swap in that pickup, but it's not the pickup I think of first for "clean" tone. My 1960 LP Historic Reissue with its Burstbucker 2 in the bridge slot gives me a better vintage Telecaster bridge tone than the ASAT's TB-4, even when it's split.
Good luck.
Bill
My ASAT Deluxe has the TB-4/'59 neck combo with 250K tone and volume pots. I finally figured out to use the coil split for 95% of my clean tones, and then simply switching to HB mode for solos. With the 250K pots it's thick and meaty and round without the treble spike some hate.
Never tried a mag swap in that pickup, but it's not the pickup I think of first for "clean" tone. My 1960 LP Historic Reissue with its Burstbucker 2 in the bridge slot gives me a better vintage Telecaster bridge tone than the ASAT's TB-4, even when it's split.
Good luck.
Bill
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Seymour Duncan simply has to start making the JB/Fullshred hybrid. takes away the smushy low end of the JB, removes the sharp high end of the FS, adds the liquid lead feel of the JB, adds the attack of the FS and works really really well clean. Almost like a blend between a tele and strat.
But hey... what do I know? Only that I'm in 15 JB/FS hybrids and so far, this is the best allrounder bridge pickup I own.
Seymour Duncan simply has to start making the JB/Fullshred hybrid. takes away the smushy low end of the JB, removes the sharp high end of the FS, adds the liquid lead feel of the JB, adds the attack of the FS and works really really well clean. Almost like a blend between a tele and strat.
But hey... what do I know? Only that I'm in 15 JB/FS hybrids and so far, this is the best allrounder bridge pickup I own.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
From what I've seen, heard and read, I think the JB is right for some players and wrong for others.
It's not right for me so I've totally given up on it.
No magnet swaps or pot swaps were able to get it to sound 100% "right" or comfortable to my ears and I think you ought to leave yours alone and just sell it and get something that sounds right and comfortable and is FUN to use so you can quit worrying about it and just make music.
For years and years I've read these kinds of posts and very few players have been able to tweak their JB's to complete satisfaction.
If you like it just as it is, keep it.
If it's voice isn't working for you get something else.
From what I've seen, heard and read, I think the JB is right for some players and wrong for others.
It's not right for me so I've totally given up on it.
No magnet swaps or pot swaps were able to get it to sound 100% "right" or comfortable to my ears and I think you ought to leave yours alone and just sell it and get something that sounds right and comfortable and is FUN to use so you can quit worrying about it and just make music.
For years and years I've read these kinds of posts and very few players have been able to tweak their JB's to complete satisfaction.
If you like it just as it is, keep it.
If it's voice isn't working for you get something else.
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KNUCKLHEAD
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Those are My Exact Sentiments , really . Last summer I removed another one from a 80's Strat and could not believe how much Higher end Beauty it had been Robbing
Those are My Exact Sentiments , really . Last summer I removed another one from a 80's Strat and could not believe how much Higher end Beauty it had been Robbing
blueman335
Mojo's Minions
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
+1. Way too many choices out there to get hung up on one PU. Duncan makes a lot great PU's.
+1. Way too many choices out there to get hung up on one PU. Duncan makes a lot great PU's.
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
Yep! That is part of the problem. With so much choices I just do not know what to go for
So far the only thing I'm looking for is a great clean tone in the bridge with clarity, but still able to take some dirt.
Yep! That is part of the problem. With so much choices I just do not know what to go for
So far the only thing I'm looking for is a great clean tone in the bridge with clarity, but still able to take some dirt.
Diego
New member
Re: Magnet swap to fix JB's muddy cleans
I'd say go for a Seymour Duncan Screamin' Demon.
As an owner of both a JB and a Demon, I can tell you that the cleans on the Demon are way better. It's not even worthy of comparison.
The Demon has a very prominent high-end response that adds clarity and balance to your cleans. It also takes dirt pretty well.
The Demon has a much lower output than the JB, it doesn't have the same fat mids, or the same response in the low-end. It's a pretty tame pickup in comparison, and a much more "specialized" product; it's not meant to be an all-rounder and it's definitely not the best choice if you're not sure what you want from a pickup. But since you've mentioned you want good cleans from your bridge humbucker, that would totally be my suggestion.
The JB is a set and forget pickup that hits the front-end of most amps nicely, the Demon will require an adjustment period and some testing with pickup height and whatnot.
By far the most unsettling quality about the Demon is the fact that it doesn't compress all that much, and you'll notice this when playing with dirt. So you'll really have to play a bit harder than with your JB. Mistakes will jump out a bit more, too.
And even with all that in consideration, I'd recommend it to anyone looking to experiment a bit.
I'd say go for a Seymour Duncan Screamin' Demon.
As an owner of both a JB and a Demon, I can tell you that the cleans on the Demon are way better. It's not even worthy of comparison.
The Demon has a very prominent high-end response that adds clarity and balance to your cleans. It also takes dirt pretty well.
The Demon has a much lower output than the JB, it doesn't have the same fat mids, or the same response in the low-end. It's a pretty tame pickup in comparison, and a much more "specialized" product; it's not meant to be an all-rounder and it's definitely not the best choice if you're not sure what you want from a pickup. But since you've mentioned you want good cleans from your bridge humbucker, that would totally be my suggestion.
The JB is a set and forget pickup that hits the front-end of most amps nicely, the Demon will require an adjustment period and some testing with pickup height and whatnot.
By far the most unsettling quality about the Demon is the fact that it doesn't compress all that much, and you'll notice this when playing with dirt. So you'll really have to play a bit harder than with your JB. Mistakes will jump out a bit more, too.
And even with all that in consideration, I'd recommend it to anyone looking to experiment a bit.
