making cheap guitars awesome
- Thread starter EDX
- Start date
- Status
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Diego
New member
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
Modding cheap guitars isn't necessarily the most cost-efficient route, but it is fun. And you learn a lot by tweaking and changing bits in cheap guitars.
You learn what works for you and what doesn't. It might be a waste of money sometimes, but it's hardly ever a waste of time.
I did that with my Squier and an old Epiphone, and frankly I wouldn't do it again.
Next time I'd rather sell it and get something "ready" out of the box.
Modding cheap guitars isn't necessarily the most cost-efficient route, but it is fun. And you learn a lot by tweaking and changing bits in cheap guitars.
You learn what works for you and what doesn't. It might be a waste of money sometimes, but it's hardly ever a waste of time.
I did that with my Squier and an old Epiphone, and frankly I wouldn't do it again.
Next time I'd rather sell it and get something "ready" out of the box.
Red_Label
New member
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
Words of wisdom here!
I've been through my upgrade phase and enjoyed it. But I don't have the time or inclination for that stuff any more. A Squire will always be a Squire, and an Epi will always be an Epi. They are what they are... great guitars FOR THE MONEY. We don't even have to use the "paint a turd gold" analogy here... we can use "you can paint a piece of silver gold, but it's still silver. Most higher-end guitars are made out of better woods, that were specifically selected for use on "the good stuff". So no matter how much hardware or electronics are replaced on the lower-grade stuff... it's STILL not gonna measure-up to the higher-grade stuff. Doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of import guitars out there that play and sound as good as the domestically-made instruments. But at the end of the day, you STILL get what you pay for (in the first place) most of the time.
Oh... and to add to an earlier poster regarding a great-sounding amp... I totally agree. I'll take a cheap guitar into an awesome amp ANY day over an awesome guitar into a cheap amp. The amp's electronics are more important than the guitar's (assuming pickups that aren't total garbage). But regardless of the item in the tone chain... it all makes a difference... for the worse or the better. Some things make a huge difference that is plain to see, while others are more of a difference in the mind of the beholder only.
Words of wisdom here!
I've been through my upgrade phase and enjoyed it. But I don't have the time or inclination for that stuff any more. A Squire will always be a Squire, and an Epi will always be an Epi. They are what they are... great guitars FOR THE MONEY. We don't even have to use the "paint a turd gold" analogy here... we can use "you can paint a piece of silver gold, but it's still silver. Most higher-end guitars are made out of better woods, that were specifically selected for use on "the good stuff". So no matter how much hardware or electronics are replaced on the lower-grade stuff... it's STILL not gonna measure-up to the higher-grade stuff. Doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of import guitars out there that play and sound as good as the domestically-made instruments. But at the end of the day, you STILL get what you pay for (in the first place) most of the time.
Oh... and to add to an earlier poster regarding a great-sounding amp... I totally agree. I'll take a cheap guitar into an awesome amp ANY day over an awesome guitar into a cheap amp. The amp's electronics are more important than the guitar's (assuming pickups that aren't total garbage). But regardless of the item in the tone chain... it all makes a difference... for the worse or the better. Some things make a huge difference that is plain to see, while others are more of a difference in the mind of the beholder only.
Last edited:
DreX
New member
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
There's just no evidence to back up this good wood / bad wood talk. Most people think that just because something cost more it must be better, they don't know how, just know that it must be. It's partly blind faith, partly to save us from the hassle of investigating production processes and finer technical points every single time we're faced with a choice as a consumer. It's much easier to look at the price and make a snap judgement about quality. The domestic makers want you to believe they hand select "tone woods", I see jewelry stores claim they hand pick diamonds, and grocers claim they hand pick produce, to assure us consumers they are giving us the best. This is probably true to the extent that someone physically has to lift these items with their hands somewhere along the way. We debate about "tone woods" on a regular basis, and you never see industry insiders chime in to explain how they pick the best sounding chuck of wood for a premium Strat, and it's not a trade secret, it's that the truth of the matter would only serve to undermine their sales pitch.
That's a saying that sometimes holds true, and should in a perfect world, but this is especially not true in the case of guitars. First, it's at odds with the widely agreed upon concept of diminishing returns in relation to higher price points. You get what you pay for up to a certain price point, beyond which you to pay a lot more and receive less. Second, when a portion of the guitar's price is owed to the higher cost of labor in a specific locale, as an unavoidable cost, apart from from luthiery skills... are you really "getting" more of anything? Third, often you pay extra for a name, does getting a "name" constitute "getting what you pay for"? Not just buying "Gibson", but paying an extra $100 - $2000 for a "Limited Edition", an ultra-deluxe-anniversary model, etc. It just goes to show that price points are a function of supply and demand, divorced from intrinsic value.
There's just no evidence to back up this good wood / bad wood talk. Most people think that just because something cost more it must be better, they don't know how, just know that it must be. It's partly blind faith, partly to save us from the hassle of investigating production processes and finer technical points every single time we're faced with a choice as a consumer. It's much easier to look at the price and make a snap judgement about quality. The domestic makers want you to believe they hand select "tone woods", I see jewelry stores claim they hand pick diamonds, and grocers claim they hand pick produce, to assure us consumers they are giving us the best. This is probably true to the extent that someone physically has to lift these items with their hands somewhere along the way. We debate about "tone woods" on a regular basis, and you never see industry insiders chime in to explain how they pick the best sounding chuck of wood for a premium Strat, and it's not a trade secret, it's that the truth of the matter would only serve to undermine their sales pitch.
That's a saying that sometimes holds true, and should in a perfect world, but this is especially not true in the case of guitars. First, it's at odds with the widely agreed upon concept of diminishing returns in relation to higher price points. You get what you pay for up to a certain price point, beyond which you to pay a lot more and receive less. Second, when a portion of the guitar's price is owed to the higher cost of labor in a specific locale, as an unavoidable cost, apart from from luthiery skills... are you really "getting" more of anything? Third, often you pay extra for a name, does getting a "name" constitute "getting what you pay for"? Not just buying "Gibson", but paying an extra $100 - $2000 for a "Limited Edition", an ultra-deluxe-anniversary model, etc. It just goes to show that price points are a function of supply and demand, divorced from intrinsic value.
Securb
One of Jerry's Kids
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
For me there is nothing "out of the box" that works for me. From my high end guitars like my Les Paul to my budget imports they all have some type of mod.
There are a lot of guys out there like Gary Clark Jr that make that silver sound like platinum. I have played plenty of Epiphones that were fantastic axes. I don't have much experience with Squires so I will refrain from commenting on those. I do think you are selling Epiphones short.
For me there is nothing "out of the box" that works for me. From my high end guitars like my Les Paul to my budget imports they all have some type of mod.
There are a lot of guys out there like Gary Clark Jr that make that silver sound like platinum. I have played plenty of Epiphones that were fantastic axes. I don't have much experience with Squires so I will refrain from commenting on those. I do think you are selling Epiphones short.
Brandenburg
New member
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
I skimmed through most the post... not feeling good enough to read 2 pages of post
I upgraded a cheap guitar and still have to do a few things to make it awesome.. mainly i need to replace the nut,level a fret or 2 and a fret polish
locking tuners--check
tremolo with brass block--check
new electronics-- check.. I buy new electronics EVERY time I buy new pickups w/o exception.. I also use cloth covered wire and solid core wire
new pickups--check.. Generally speaking.. Anything is better than the cheap pickups.. I prefer Iron Gear pickups as they are exceptional quality for like 1/2 the cost of a comparable offering by SD or dimazio
proper setup--check
shielding-- check.. I actually showed my friend the effectiveness of a properly shielded guitar.. I turned my RG100es on 3 with the gain on 10..(i.e. pretty f*kin loud) stood 1 foot away from a 4x12.. maxed the guitar volume.. and took my hands off the springs.. and it was WHISPER QUIET.. Hell ,That impressed me too.. I use shielding tape and if needed ,i used stripped solid core wire and solder to connect the different cavities.. yea.. I also make sure everything is conductive via a DMM
I skimmed through most the post... not feeling good enough to read 2 pages of post
I upgraded a cheap guitar and still have to do a few things to make it awesome.. mainly i need to replace the nut,level a fret or 2 and a fret polish
locking tuners--check
tremolo with brass block--check
new electronics-- check.. I buy new electronics EVERY time I buy new pickups w/o exception.. I also use cloth covered wire and solid core wire
new pickups--check.. Generally speaking.. Anything is better than the cheap pickups.. I prefer Iron Gear pickups as they are exceptional quality for like 1/2 the cost of a comparable offering by SD or dimazio
proper setup--check
shielding-- check.. I actually showed my friend the effectiveness of a properly shielded guitar.. I turned my RG100es on 3 with the gain on 10..(i.e. pretty f*kin loud) stood 1 foot away from a 4x12.. maxed the guitar volume.. and took my hands off the springs.. and it was WHISPER QUIET.. Hell ,That impressed me too.. I use shielding tape and if needed ,i used stripped solid core wire and solder to connect the different cavities.. yea.. I also make sure everything is conductive via a DMM
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
idsnowdog
Imperator of Indignation
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
Original Guitar:
$50 Craigslist Chinese Squier Tele. The ceramic bridge pickup wasn't bad, but it lacked definition. The guitar came with 500K pots which was an odd choice for a Tele. The top loading Squier bridge sucked because the intonation screws bound the strings and the string angle was awkward for changing strings.
Modifications:
Changed wiring from modern to 50's. Enlarged the neck route to fit a mini-humbucker. The string through body bridge I bought was also too small so I had to enlarge the pickup hole to fit the pickup. I ruined my first Vintage Noiseless because the bobbin rubbed against the baseplate and it shorted the coils. Stupid engineering move by Fender so buyer beware!
I started out with a 250K volume which was too dark for the neck mini, so I went with a 500K volume pot instead. The Vintage Noiseless bridge was a bit bright with the 500K pot, so I ran a 1M resistor in parallel with the pot so it sees a 333K load. I also switched the tone over to a 250K pot with a .022 capacitor. The neck mini was still a bit dark with a 500K pot so I put a .015 capacitor bass trap on the hot lead to balance it better with the bridge. I also drilled the body to accept ferrules which improved string loading and tone.
Parts changed:
6 saddle string through bridge.
Fender Vintage Noiseless bridge.
Ferrules.
GFS 3 ply pickguard.
GFS hot mini neck.
Parts on order:
Fender Malmsteen brass nut.
Roller string trees.
Original Guitar:
$50 Craigslist Chinese Squier Tele. The ceramic bridge pickup wasn't bad, but it lacked definition. The guitar came with 500K pots which was an odd choice for a Tele. The top loading Squier bridge sucked because the intonation screws bound the strings and the string angle was awkward for changing strings.
Modifications:
Changed wiring from modern to 50's. Enlarged the neck route to fit a mini-humbucker. The string through body bridge I bought was also too small so I had to enlarge the pickup hole to fit the pickup. I ruined my first Vintage Noiseless because the bobbin rubbed against the baseplate and it shorted the coils. Stupid engineering move by Fender so buyer beware!
I started out with a 250K volume which was too dark for the neck mini, so I went with a 500K volume pot instead. The Vintage Noiseless bridge was a bit bright with the 500K pot, so I ran a 1M resistor in parallel with the pot so it sees a 333K load. I also switched the tone over to a 250K pot with a .022 capacitor. The neck mini was still a bit dark with a 500K pot so I put a .015 capacitor bass trap on the hot lead to balance it better with the bridge. I also drilled the body to accept ferrules which improved string loading and tone.
Parts changed:
6 saddle string through bridge.
Fender Vintage Noiseless bridge.
Ferrules.
GFS 3 ply pickguard.
GFS hot mini neck.
Parts on order:
Fender Malmsteen brass nut.
Roller string trees.
Attachments
Last edited:
Muffleberry
New member
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
Then I shall retract my statement, and re-word it accordionly.
You seem to disagree with about 95% of what everyone else says and agrees with.
Is it lonely up there by yourself?
???
Then I shall retract my statement, and re-word it accordionly.
You seem to disagree with about 95% of what everyone else says and agrees with.
Is it lonely up there by yourself?
???
DreX
New member
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
This is totally a worthwhile direction to take this thread in. I'll tell you why I seem to disagree a lot: because posting "yeah, me too! I agree!" is generally lame, substanceless small talk for people who have a need to communicate for the sake of communication, to remedy their own loneliness perhaps. I'm here to have conversations of substance about all things electric guitars. The fact that I only post in about 5% of the overall threads posted means that I agree with roughly 95% of everything that is written. I can't fathom how cheap your time must be to even justify this line of inquiry.
This is totally a worthwhile direction to take this thread in. I'll tell you why I seem to disagree a lot: because posting "yeah, me too! I agree!" is generally lame, substanceless small talk for people who have a need to communicate for the sake of communication, to remedy their own loneliness perhaps. I'm here to have conversations of substance about all things electric guitars. The fact that I only post in about 5% of the overall threads posted means that I agree with roughly 95% of everything that is written. I can't fathom how cheap your time must be to even justify this line of inquiry.
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Muffleberry
New member
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
Hey man, you win!
I bow down to your superior intellect. Any original thought that I may have had, you just
threw out the window, and you are the supreme ruler.
Go on with yo bad self, bro!
Hey man, you win!
I bow down to your superior intellect. Any original thought that I may have had, you just
threw out the window, and you are the supreme ruler.
Go on with yo bad self, bro!
Muffleberry
New member
Muffleberry
New member
Re: making cheap guitars awesome
Did you report me for that?
I think you are awesome, bro. I don't understand why you are arguing with me.
You win!
Did you report me for that?
I think you are awesome, bro. I don't understand why you are arguing with me.
You win!
- Status
