Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

[C-Martin]

So the other guitarist in the band i play in uses a fender tweed deluxe amp, 60 watt trough 4x10 speakers combo. I use a JTM-45 head with a 1922 2x12 speaker cab.. problem is my marshall cant get near as loud has his amp and he often does'nt even get past 2 on the volume so i'm wondering if i get a 4x12 cab will i get louder or at least have more presence or if i should just go ahead and get a higher wattage amp or something... Is the 60 vs 30 watt diference that big?

I really don't want to because i love how my jtm sounds especially where its been recently fitted with new KT66 tesla tubes and some nos Mullard 12ax7 in the preamp, new transformer, etc.. a whole rebuilt was done in it and it sounds awesome but we just did a show yesterday and i could'nt hear nothing at all comming from my amp, could've just been unpluged and not make a difference for me i was just playing the stuff because i knew the songs by heart and its kinda dumb imo to be playing lead and solos if you cant even hear what your doing especialy where i sort of improvise sometimes.. worst part is we where miced so apparently people heared me just i could'nt hear **** on stage

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed Deluxe.. volume problem

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed Deluxe.. volume problem

correction.. its a Blues DeVille 410 not a deluxe

 

[J Moose]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

How's it dialed in? A healthy JTM45 with a 2x12 cab should be more then loud enough to blow the pants off a drummer in most any situation. Is the cab open back or closed? What kind of speakers?

It's entirely possible that the amp is blowing right past you... especially if it's closed back w/ the cab on the ground aimed at your ankles.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

J Moose is right...if you get a stand for the amp head, and a stand for the 2x12 cab, you'll have no trouble hearing yourself. Otherwise, tell the other guy to turn down till both amps match in volume.

How high do you run the JTM? I would think it would be overkill on most stages if you run it past 5.

Maybe a set of more sensitive speakers in your cab?...:scratchch

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

We need more details...

A JTM-45 should easily keep up with a Bues DeVille and then some!

 

[sonnyblu]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Your JTM45 is 30 to 35 watts... I play my JTM45 on Vol 7... To Mix with my 50 watt 1987 Plexi I can only turn it up to... like Vol 2

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

JTM-45 i can crank it up to full on 10 everything but stil not loud enough, and i have no trouble with the drummer its compared to the 60 watt deville i cant keep up with him in volume. As for the cab its just an old 1922 stock cap with the Celestion G12-75T inside and i know the fact the the cab is on the floor but seriously i moved arround far and bended down so my head would be level with the speakers **** near sat on the floor at one time and stil nothing or i could hear a very faint thing that sounded like it was me playing lol. Amp works perfectly on its own with the entire band as soon as the deville kicks in i disapear.. and like i said his amp is barely even on 2 he can crank it up even louder if he wants he already keeps it pretty low so it doesnt overwhelm the entire band.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

There are 2 things abotu G12T75's...one they are mid scooped which means that they will have trouble cuttiong through a band mix ion top of that they are only 97db efficient meaning that they are simply not very loud speakers. Try a paif of G12H30's or Vintage 30's and see where that gets you.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Past that are you sure the amp is running properly at the moment??

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

the G12-75s aren't loud speakers? i thought they where.. maybe a new cab would help i been wanting to try out those G12H30s actually.. also been wondering maybe a 4x12 would help this a bit instead of the 2x12

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Past that are you sure the amp is running properly at the moment??

im not a amp tech or anything but like i said alone works great from waht i can hear and its just been serviced not long ago with new practicly everything and the guy that did it is a pro thats worked on amps for like 20 years or something.. i dont know much about amp circuitry or anything to check it for myself

 

[C-Martin]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

BTW its the Reissue Blues DeVille 410... the one in tweed not the "Hot rod" balck one

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

That cab is a POS to be honest about it!
Had one as a backup once....borrowed it from a mate....Used it with a Park 75....first time ever I had to really work that amp harder than usual.
Plus the cab had a really weird thing going with its size!
The next time I took along my other 2x12 cab with G12Hs....no troubles.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

I never had this problem with my JTM-45.

Just the opposite, too loud.

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Get a 4x12 loaded with any of Celestions 100dB sensitivity speakers. V30s are VERY loud for that purpose. G12Hs are also 100dB. The G12T-75 are 3dB quieter which should mean that two of them are about as loud as one V30. (which doesn't mean that the V-30 is twice as loud audible, since two speakers are not twice as loud as one if from the same kind, but about 3dB louder )

 

[Low_fidelity2100]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

There are 2 things abotu G12T75's...one they are mid scooped which means that they will have trouble cuttiong through a band mix ion top of that they are only 97db efficient meaning that they are simply not very loud speakers. Try a paif of G12H30's or Vintage 30's and see where that gets you.

+1 for different speakers.

Also, how are you setting the eq on the amp itself? Cause that will make a HUGE difference in whether your heard or not. A tone that sounds great on its own, might not cut through with a full band (esspeically with a second guitarist). So while your amp could actually be louder, you'll still not be able to hear yourself when the band kicks in. Cause your getting drown out by The drummer, Bass player, and Other guitarist.

Try Cranking the Mids, Treble on 6-8, cut the bass down to 3 or so, Presence on 6-8. That and Different speakers should help cut through better.

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

Ah and just another thing in case you didn't know... double the wattage on an amp is only about 10% louder when full on.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

All the above suggestions are good, but one option could be that the other guitar player is playing way too loud.

-The solution to that would be to get him to turn down or go to a 50w+ amp...

 

[Kommerzbassist]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

-The solution to that would be to get him to turn down or go to a 50w+ amp...

The watts really aren't the problem here. Watts are merely clean headroom. A 10W amp is about half as loud as a 100W one, since the hearing works in a logarithmic fashion. Double the power means about +3dB.

I think it's mostly a problem with the 2x12 just blowing away his shoes but nothing else...

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Marshall JTM-45 vs Fender Tweed amp.. volume problem

The watts really aren't the problem here. Watts are merely clean headroom. A 10W amp is about half as loud as a 100W one, since the hearing works in a logarithmic fashion. Double the power means about +3dB.

I think it's mostly a problem with the 2x12 just blowing away his shoes but nothing else...

Cab quality, orientation and speaker load are all important issues to consider. And I'm aware of the whole wattage v percieved volume thing. But my solution for running a tube rectified 30w amp alongside a cranked 60w amp would be to up the wattage. I've been in this situation many times before: if you're in a volume war and sound reinforcement/room size/band positioning are against you, getting over 50w is the only guaranteed way you'll get what you need onstage without staring at your cabinet from two feet away.

Of course, getting the other guy to turn down/move his amp would be the first stop...