Marshall + Mesa EQ, John Sykes and Michael Nielsen

AFTER the band got famous....like Acatrazz, like Roth, like Whitesnake. If he could only make a band famous on his own. But the kid can learn other great player's licks really good!

Well, Sykes isn't faring much better in this regard. He joined Thin Lizzy when they were on the way down, and Whitesnake was already a huge name outside of North America in the mid-80s. I will concede that the pop turn the band took when he joined helped them break into the US market, but let us not pretend for one moment that they weren't already one of the biggest names on the European scene. Blue Murder went absolutely nowhere, of course, but I'm sure that signing to Geffen (where Coverdale must have had considerable clout in 1989) worked against him.
 
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Well, Sykes isn't faring much better in this regard. He joined Thin Lizzy when they were on the way down, and Whitesnake was already a huge name outside of North America in the mid-80s. I will concede that the pop turn the band took when he joined helped them break into the US market, but let us not pretend for one moment that they weren't already one of the biggest names on the European scene. Blue Murder went absolutely nowhere, of course, but I'm sure that signing to Geffen (where Coverdale must have had considerable clout in 1989) worked against him.

But he IS Whitesnake.
 
Sykes was also the guy that was to play with Billy Sheehan and Mike Portnoy in the "Winery Dogs" but he kept dragging his feet on getting started so they got Kotzen involved. I love Sykes' tone and playing but for whatever reason he is slow to do anything and has just drifted nearly into oblivion.

Regarding Vai...he was the worst fit as a guitarist that Whitesnake ever had IMO.
 
Sykes was also the guy that was to play with Billy Sheehan and Mike Portnoy in the "Winery Dogs" but he kept dragging his feet on getting started so they got Kotzen involved. I love Sykes' tone and playing but for whatever reason he is slow to do anything and has just drifted nearly into oblivion.

Regarding Vai...he was the worst fit as a guitarist that Whitesnake ever had IMO.


New Sykes, anti-oblivion incarnate.
 
Sykes famous "Whitesnake" (c. 1987) tone is thus:

- 1978 LP Custom w/ Dirty Fingers pickup
- Lexicon PCM-41
- 2x Mesa Boogie Mk. III Coliseums
- EV-12L speakers

Tracked in stereo (PCM-41 set to slight chorus in stereo), then doubled (in other words, tracked in stereo x2).

Like so with these rough BIAS 2 clips I whipped up:



and:

 
As far as John's Jose-modded Marshalls back then, here's a snippet from Trace of Voodoo Amps:

I shared the following with a few members through a PM and I was encouraged to post this in the forum. Let me preface this by saying that I am not posting to contridict but rather to simply share my own experience.


I love the tone on the Whitesnake record as well as the Blue Murder records and John is amazing player (great tone and vibrato!) I favor the tone on the Whitesnake record (Still of The Night, etc) but the Blue Murder tones were great as well! I always though the amp was a Mesa Coliseum as well as that is what I had heard for years. I believe John also said that is what he used on that record. I even went to far as to track down and purchase a Coliseum. I am presuming he said he used this in the studio to misdirect people?

I say this as; Years ago when I was recording a record at Phase One Studios in Toronto Canada I became friends with one of the engineers that was assigned to work with our band. He was one of the on staff engineers and worked for the studio. Before we arrived he was given the task of reorganizing the tape library. There were some amazing safety copies of iconic records that were in that library and there was a safety copy of that record. Along with the session track sheets were notes regarding a Marshall & Les Paul for the guitar tracks. A Strat was also listed on the songs that contained clean parts.

I had never heard a regular Marshall sound like that and I have always loved that tone so I was very curious. Lord knows I would have loved to have that tone! (lol) Approximately one week later I was able to meet the gentleman who owned the studio at that time when we were there. He also had owned the studio at the time that record was being recorded. He had a lot of great stories but the one that is relevant to this thread is that he recalled John's Modded Marshall going down during the tracking of the rhythm guitar tracks. The studio had a repair tech on staff (IE: they had old vintage Neve consoles, tape machines, outboard gear, etc that required constant maintenance) and he offered to have a look at the amp to see if he could fix it for them. John insisted that the amp be sent to the gentleman in CA who had modified it. This was a big to-do at the time as there was 3 weeks of down time at the studio that the label was paying for though nothing was being recorded. Back in those days the big studios had lock-out rates that were pricey even by today’s standards. In the end it was obviously water under the bridge as the record did in fact sell very well and the guitar tone is still amazing to this day. Naturally I was dying to know who the tech was as I really wanted that tone but when I asked him if he recalled the name of the tech that John sent his amp to he said Jose was his first name but could not be certain of his last name.

I have always wanted to work with John as I have always loved his playing. Fast forward to a few years ago; I was able to talk with a gentleman that was John’s guitar tech at the time. He said John has been using Marshalls that Jose Modded for a long time and was not interested in using anything else. Apparently John spent some time purchasing several Jose Modded Marshalls around Los Angeles CA area and eBay in order to find one that sounded like his main amp so that he had a back up. We have worked on a lot of Jose A Modded amps and Jose did a lot of Mods that were different from one another, all cool in their own way. There is one that will get you that tone and while it does not do cleans very well the gain tones are certainly in line with John’s tone. It was what Jose referred to as his “Studio Mod” as the volume is padded down. Earlier on he would install a transformer isolated line out (which sounded best to me ears) and later on it was resistor based. This was done to capture the amps tone and send it to either a power amp or to effects and then to the power amp.


Much the same as a lot of great guitar players who have amazing tone (EVH, etc) there can be conflicting reports with regards to which amps/gear were used on various records. Again, I am only sharing my own experience in the hopes that it helps. I have been a long time fan of John's and regardless of what amps he uses - he is an incredibly talented player as well as an outstanding singer.


All the best to everyone here;
Trace
 
Sorry, I stand corrected. Still, I think the writing and playing on Slip of the Tongue are much better. However, admittedly I am a Vai fanboy.

This one is an interesting one for me. I think SotT is sounds weak, and I would agree with the general sentiment that Vai was a terrible fit for the band, but the songs I find are arguably better than 1987. I can hardly think of a single album that, to me, failed to live up to the premises of the material and the extreme talent involved, and I will always wonder what that album would have sounded like if (1) Adje had been able to do all the guitars, and (2) it had been recorded by a relatively cohesive band rather than whomever Dave was working with that day.
 
Sorry, I stand corrected. Still, I think the writing and playing on Slip of the Tongue are much better. However, admittedly I am a Vai fanboy.

I love Steve Vai as well, I think he does better as a solo artist though. Passion and Warfare is a masterpiece.
 
Steve Vai's album was Whitesnake's biggest commercial success.

That still doesn't mean Vai was a good fit. By your logic just think of how that record would have sold if ABBA was in Whitesnake instead of Vai. ;)

I don' dislike Vai. I very much like his playing but thought his time in Whitesnake was a waste for both parties.
 
Until Steve Vai showed up

TheseDishonestHomalocephale-small.gif

^^^
the perfect post
 
I love Steve Vai as well, I think he does better as a solo artist though. Passion and Warfare is a masterpiece.

I think Vai Success Goes something like:

Eat'em & Smile
Skyscraper
Slip of the Tongue
Entire Zappa Career
Passion & Warfare

And then nothing is even close to being worth counting....

Vai has not done anything truly notable since 1990-ish. I'm not saying he isn't an amazing player. Just not an amazingly sellable one, or even popular beyond the guitar illuminati. Unless he is in a band, replacing a really good play and riding off the fame off their best albums.
 
I could write pages showing how wrong you are but I will go with the premise if one thing in your argument is flawed so is your entire argument. Vai did not jump on board with the DLR band he was there from the beginning. He did not replace anyone. Once Vai left the band tanked and went from playing stadiums and theaters to doing club gigs.
 
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I think Vai Success Goes something like:

Eat'em & Smile
Skyscraper
Slip of the Tongue
Entire Zappa Career
Passion & Warfare

And then nothing is even close to being worth counting....

Vai has not done anything truly notable since 1990-ish. I'm not saying he isn't an amazing player. Just not an amazingly sellable one, or even popular beyond the guitar illuminati. Unless he is in a band, replacing a really good play and riding off the fame off their best albums.

I wholly agree with this. Even with Whitesnake, I think he took a back seat writing/playing wise to Vandenberg. He has never been able to tap into the thing that Satch does so well...make melodic guitar music that doesn't bore your wife. Even his esoteric stuff, while interesting, isn't quite on the same plane as Robert Fripp or Andy Summers. It still has roots deeply in late 70s VH-inspired flashy rock guitar playing.
 
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