Marshall Mode Four vs. Fender Metalhead--any recollections of these (in)famous amps?

[Inflames626]

^What the topic says.

I remember them being marketed heavily and receiving a mixed reception in the 00s.

The Metalhead seems less well remembered but has often been emulated in Fender licensed plugins. Amplitube Fender comes to mind.

I repeat my statement from an earlier thread that in my experience the Fender Pro Sonic was a surprisingly good head for 80s and even 90s metal if dialed in correctly.

Thanks all.

 

[El Dunco]

There was a Mode Four thread pretty recently.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/amplifier-central/6243333-marshall-mode-four

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yeah, that was my thread.

Never got to try the Metalhead.

The Mode Four was a caricature of a Metal amp. The boomiest low-end, the fizziest high-end, the fuzziest gain levels, but if you dialed in conservatively, it was a very interesting edgy-sounding amp for Death Metal and whatnot.

The cabs were also fantastic. Or as fantastic as Marshall cabs get since they're not the best-built cabs around considering the price.

 

[Inflames626]

Yeah, that was my thread.

Never got to try the Metalhead.

The Mode Four was a caricature of a Metal amp. The boomiest low-end, the fizziest high-end, the fuzziest gain levels, but if you dialed in conservatively, it was a very interesting edgy-sounding amp for Death Metal and whatnot.

The cabs were also fantastic. Or as fantastic as Marshall cabs get since they're not the best-built cabs around considering the price.

Alex Skolnick raved about them, which is odd considering he went from a floating trem Ibby guy to a jazz player to an LP (sometimes Floyded but often not) guy.

I expected him to be very Marty Friedman in tonal taste.

 

[Inflames626]

I think this was also the time when head designers were racing to see how many channels/onboard effects they could put on a single head.

So you'd say, "Wow! Four channels!"

Seems kind of quaint now, as does the Randall amp with the removable pres.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Alex Skolnick raved about them, which is odd considering he went from a floating trem Ibby guy to a jazz player to an LP (sometimes Floyded but often not) guy.

I expected him to be very Marty Friedman in tonal taste.

Yeah. He used them for a while.

They're kinda hidden gems, especially since everybody hates them, and they tend to basically sell for pennies used. I also heard some of them were riddled with issues, but honestly, which Marshall in the last 30 years hasn't been? LOL. I'm going to go ahead and say they're probably nobody's dream amp, but if you can score a working one for like 300 bucks, I bet you'd be surprised. I would much rather play a Mode Four than a JCM900, personally.

I bet you'd at least find a usable tone since your an 800 guy. Amp 1 Crunch is essentiall a solid state JCM800 with the added benefit of having a resonance control.

 

[Inflames626]

Yeah. He used them for a while.

They're kinda hidden gems, especially since everybody hates them, and they tend to basically sell for pennies used. I also heard some of them were riddled with issues, but honestly, which Marshall in the last 30 years hasn't been? LOL. I'm going to go ahead and say they're probably nobody's dream amp, but if you can score a working one for like 300 bucks, I bet you'd be surprised. I would much rather play a Mode Four than a JCM900, personally.

I never thought Marshalls were badly made as much as I thought that, for some reason, there was very limited old stock going around that had been modded and traded so much that by the time anyone got their hands on it it had already had 5 previous users.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I have a 1960A from 2013. 2013 was when they went back to using plywood backs from MDF backs after like 40 years, LOL.

But it's so disheartening opening it up and seeing how poorly made they're inside. The trashy construction I bet is part of the tone though. Because it does mic up beautifully.

I honestly prefer a 1960AV to a Recto cab in the room as far as V30 cabs go, honestly. Easier to carry too. I bet a Mesa Stiletto cab or a Bogner or some of the higher-end better-constructed cabs would sound killer with the 16 Ohm Marshall V30 variants.

But I'm kind of over V30's, honestly. At least for in-the-room sounds. Much nicer options out there.

 

[Inflames626]

I have a 1960A from 2013. 2013 was when they went back to using plywood backs from MDF backs after like 40 years, LOL.

But it's so disheartening opening it up and seeing how poorly made they're inside. The trashy construction I bet is part of the tone though. Because it does mic up beautifully.

I honestly prefer a 1960AV to a Recto cab in the room as far as V30 cabs go, honestly. Easier to carry too. I bet a Mesa Stiletto cab or a Bogner or some of the higher-end better-constructed cabs would sound killer with the 16 Ohm Marshall V30 variants.

But I'm kind of over V30's, honestly. At least for in-the-room sounds. Much nicer options out there.

I'm surprised to hear that opinion.

I always thought 1960Bs were kind of the rock guitar standard. I knew Mesas were oversized for Rectos and some people don't like that, while Marshalls were considered tighter.

As with anything Marshall, like Gibson, I expected old stuff to be in demand just because it's old and 30-40+ year old mojo juice is supposed to be special.

 

[El Dunco]

They do sound good. Luckily my 1960A from 2009 was half price because it’s white and most guitarists want black which I like even better but it’s a little jarring when you open them up to change speakers and see how crappy they are for the price and the prestige of the name on the badge.

 

[Inflames626]

They do sound good. Luckily my 1960A from 2009 was half price because it’s white and most guitarists want black which I like even better but it’s a little jarring when you open them up to change speakers and see how crappy they are for the price and the prestige of the name on the badge.

Could never get into angled cabs. Just the look. I see why one would need them for a fuller field of sound.

Also didn't like it when hipsters started turning angled cabs on their sides on top of a straight cab around 2010, but I also see the reason for that. Makes more sense than blasting sound over people's heads.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I MUCH prefer mic'ing up Angled cabs. The speakers up top sound much less rumbly and more up-front, and most importantly, there is a lot less phase cancellation from standing waves bounding off the back of the parallel back. I don't know how people get usable tones out of micin'g the bottom speakers on an angled cab, personally. I could never for the life of me get it to work. They always sounded hollow as if I had two mics out of phase mic'ing it up.

Marshall straight cabs aren't too bad because they're slightly angled. But the top speakers still sound slighty better than the bottom ones, IMO.

It's the completely parallel straight cabs like Orange that I DREAD mic'ing up.

Honestly, it's also hard to compare apples to oranges on Marshall vs. Mesa cabs, even if they both have V30's. Both have radically different speakers, TBH. Even igorning that they both have their "propietary" take on the standard V30, the Marshall V30 is almost always 16 ohms while the Mesa is almost always 8. Even if you compare straigh up Mesa 16 vs. 8 ohms, there is a world of differnce. Also, the cab construction and materials are radically different.

I will say, though, out of the two most comparable analogs would be the Mesa Recto vs Traditional cab. And I think the Recto is actually the tighter of the two. The low-end is pushed down lower where it's more deep and controlled rather than stuffy and slightly muddy in the low mids. The high mid spike is also pushed higher up from the internal volume, thus making it more open and agressive rather than harsh. JMO, of course.

Honestly, the Recto cab has become so overused that it gets kinda boring to listen to it again and again. But they used it so much because it just pumps out the right frequencies for Metal, IMO. Not to say there aren't other great cabs to be had, though.

 

[Inflames626]

I MUCH prefer mic'ing up Angled cabs. The speakers up top sound much less rumbly and more up-front, and most importantly, there is a lot less phase cancellation from standing waves bounding off the back of the parallel back. I don't know how people get usable tones out of micin'g the bottom speakers on an angled cab, personally. I could never for the life of me get it to work. They always sounded hollow as if I had two mics out of phase mic'ing it up.

Marshall straight cabs aren't too bad because they're slightly angled. But the top speakers still sound slighty better than the bottom ones, IMO.

It's the completely parallel straight cabs like Orange that I DREAD mic'ing up.

Honestly, it's also hard to compare apples to oranges on Marshall vs. Mesa cabs, even if they both have V30's. Both have radically different speakers, TBH. Even igorning that they both have their "propietary" take on the standard V30, the Marshall V30 is almost always 16 ohms while the Mesa is almost always 8. Even if you compare straigh up Mesa 16 vs. 8 ohms, there is a world of differnce. Also, the cab construction and materials are radically different.

I will say, though, out of the two most comparable analogs would be the Mesa Recto vs Traditional cab. And I think the Recto is actually the tighter of the two. The low-end is pushed down lower where it's more deep and controlled rather than stuffy and slightly muddy in the low mids. The high mid spike is also pushed higher up from the internal volume, thus making it more open and agressive rather than harsh. JMO, of course.

Honestly, the Recto cab has become so overused that it gets kinda boring to listen to it again and again. But they used it so much because it just pumps out the right frequencies for Metal, IMO.

I never thought of it much other than guys seemed to automatically think lower speaker on straight cab because thump and chug.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I never thought of it much other than guys seemed to automatically think lower speaker on straight cab because thump and chug.

Yeah, they do sound more rumbly.

This is what I mean. Notice how the bottom speaker has a weird voicing to the mids. Almost vocal/nasal/phasey. He even makes note of it on the description of the vid. That's how my Marshall cab is as well.

It's weird, though, because many people seem to be getting good results mic'ing bottom speakers on angled cabs. But it's alsot not just me who has that issue. I don't know what could be wrong.

 

[Inflames626]

Yeah, they do sound more rumbly.

This is what I mean. Notice how the bottom speaker has a weird voicing to the mids. Almost vocal/nasal/phasey. He even makes note of it on the description of the vid. That's how my Marshall cab is as well.

It's weird, though, because many people seem to be getting good results mic'ing bottom speakers on angled cabs. But it's alsot not just me who has that issue. I don't know what could be wrong.

You've given me food for thought and I appreciate it.

Back when I used real amps it was a pain to place a mic while also playing guitar by yourself. I usually pointed it to the center cone on a lower speaker and if I liked the tone it was good enough. Didn't spend a lot of time tweaking. Or a room mic because of wall reflections.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

You've given me food for thought and I appreciate it.

Back when I used real amps it was a pain to place a mic while also playing guitar by yourself. I usually pointed it to the center cone on a lower speaker and if I liked the tone it was good enough. Didn't spend a lot of time tweaking. Or a room mic because of wall reflections.

I actually just checked his description, and he explicitly states it's not because of the angled/straight nature of the cab. But to me, that's what EVERY speaker I tried in the bottom half of my cab sounded like. Even the same speaker. I did make the experiment to see if I had wired something out of phase or something, but no. That's just the way the bottom half of my cab (and many others) sounds.

 

[Seashore]

Depending on how much close-mic cork sniffing you do, every speaker sounds a bit different. I like the top left speaker on my VHT cab the best. When I only had the Peavey cab I pretty much always miked the bottom right. Best tone if I'm being super picky is usually right at the edge of the dust cap.

 

[Inflames626]

Depending on how much close-mic cork sniffing you do, every speaker sounds a bit different. I like the top left speaker on my VHT cab the best. When I only had the Peavey cab I pretty much always miked the bottom right. Best tone if I'm being super picky is usually right at the edge of the dust cap.

To me back in the day what made a recording sound amateur (like a cassette deck recording with a blanket thrown over it) was too much room ambience. I usually tried to get very little room sound and then add reverb back in later if needed.

But I was 15-25 back then and didn't know what I know now, nor did I have the tools I have now.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

That's another thing I like about Celestions, especially with the small dust cap like V30's or Greenbacks. Point them to the sweet spot everyone knows about, and that's about it. Good tone immediately. Of course, you can fine-tune it by angling the mic, moving the mic closer or further, or sliding it slightly outward or inward from the sweet spot. That's where the real "perfect" tone lies. But to me, if a mic'd amp setup doesn't sound good with the plain old "SM57 in the sweet spot of a Celestion" off the bat, then the problem is somwehere else in the chain (amp settings, amp choice, etc.). Even if untreated rooms are far from ideal, an SM57 is more forgiving than other mics in that sense.

I just straight up skip room mics for Metal in guitars, personally. I like my guitars up-front. A room mic just takes away from that. I also like the minimalistic approach of a single mic. Blending close mics is cool, but at the same time, I always notice a slight weirdness in the mids even if they're as in-phase as you can get them (because you can NEVER get 2 mics 100% in-phase).

 

[Inflames626]

Yeah for me it was basically "This is a pain in the *** to get the mic where I want it while I'm holding the guitar and playing (and trying not to feed back). Does it sound bad here? No? It'll work."

With software I'm a lot more meticulous.