Marshall overhyped?

Re: Marshall overhyped?

are marshalls overhyped?

yes

do i have enough knowledge to bac this statement?

no

then why do i say theyre overhyped? because no one company dominates. ive herd marshalls that sound awsome, ive herd marshalls that sound like craap.

i think alot of players buy a marshall caus "well evryone else uses them they must be good." pfffft let your ear decide. dont buy whatll make you look cool, buy whatll make you sound like you wanna sound.

i mostly play metal, but i dont own a bc rich or a jackson. i own a strat with a humbucker in it for versitility. yeah so it aint the most metal lookgin guitar, but so the **** what??

the point is to many people buy based on brand name coolness. thats why marshalls are overhyped, caus theyre considered the ultimate "cool" amp to have. the coolest amp to have is the one that makes you sound the best playing your music.
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

i mostly play metal, but i dont own a bc rich or a jackson. i own a strat with a humbucker in it for versitility. yeah so it aint the most metal lookgin guitar, but so the **** what??
.

you dont need a pointy guitar to play metal anyway, look at wylde, yngwie, iommi, and (some of the time) Priest. they dont use pointy guitars. I think using a strat is fine for metal, only little kids think pointy guitars are only for metal, and strats for country.
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

you dont need a pointy guitar to play metal anyway, look at wylde, yngwie, iommi, and (some of the time) Priest. they dont use pointy guitars. I think using a strat is fine for metal, only little kids think pointy guitars are only for metal, and strats for country.

Theres a local black metal band here.. one of the guitarists uses a white strat, and he has nickel/covered humbuckers in both positions. Strat Metal FTW.
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

Differant strokes, for differant folks, perhaps ?

It also depends (IMHO - not trying to sound condecending) what type of music you like, what type of music you grew-up with, and what you think good tone should sound like !

I am a Fender man *Amen*, but of all the Marshall's out there, i fell in love wih the Plexi tone :smokin:
Never heard a bad Plexi-tone, not even when the band playing, had no chops !!!

I, on the other hand, tested a Mode4 in Sam Ash about 2 years ago, and after 30min. said thank you to the sales clerk (very helpfull, to be honest), and kept wonderring "why the hell did Marshall invest money in this thing ?
(...even by then, the Nu-metal, ala Korn era was almost dead and gone - too little way to late ?)

Also, not a fan of either the TSL or DSL series either. (NO SOUL/MOJO, to my young ears !)

The one other Marshal that i have serious GAS for, is the BluesBreaker 18watter - pure sex to my ears !

So, i s'pose it depends what you are looking from your amp ?

* Generic Rock, ala Creed, Nickleback, etc (...if so, you should be shot on the spot ! NO QUESTIONS ASKED !!!)
* Classic Rock
* Nu-Metal
* Death Metal
* Prog-Rock
* Primitive Garage Rock
* Sweaty, smokey, sexy, gritty Chigago Blues :smokin:


. . . or any other genre that the corporate machine can think off, to sell more CD's !

Test as many as you can, and let your ears buy the right amp for you !


GOOD LUCK MATE !

Not looking for an amp, simply stating my findings from a demo.

lol... You actually think I like korn or nu-metal? Dude... I play a rickenbacker 330 through a classic 50.:laugh2:

My classic 50 sounded far better than anything they demo'd there IMO.

And on top of that, different stroke for different folks? Everyone was holding their ears when the demo guy played the plexi, it was painfully ear pearcing.

Very well said mate !

Problem is, most kids who start out playing thses days are into some kinda Metal, or sub-genre there off !!!

* shakes head in sorrow *


Even my cousin (19y) is in a [...get this], a "melodic" metal band !

Once the guitars start to sound like drums or a Hammaond B3, and the vocals like DOOMS DAY are comming, i loose the plot !

Again... I play a ric through a classic 50. I'm as far from your "sub-genre" metal as it gets.
 
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Re: Marshall overhyped?

i started in metal but ran away fast. It just bored me, and when i turned down the gain i realized that all the chopsy stuff that i was playing through my crate practice amp kinda sucked. The most fun i had was playing too loud with my first band (iron maiden and metallica covers all day with non stop solos!)

I love real marshalls. But the whole marshall sound, like mentioned earlier, is heavily speaker based....its a roided up fender with roaring speakers... more or less. It's ALL about the speakers, IMO, jim marshall's biggest innovation wasn't ripping off a bassman and beefing things up, it was putting together a finger jointed cab with great sounding speakers and making the best sounding rock cabinet in history (In most people's opinion, obviously).
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

Not looking for an amp, simply stating my findings from a demo.

Again... I play a ric through a classic 50. I'm as far from your "sub-genre" metal as it gets.


. . . cool :smokin:


FWIW, i have a very soft spot for those Classic series of amps.
Nearly had C30 w. V30 sp. about 4 months ago, but the seller decided NOT to sell - bugger !!!
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

Are Marshalls overhyped? Perhaps a little "history" will clarify my opinion. (read on as there IS a moral here).....

When I started playing in the mid 80's my first rig was a Laney AOR30 and matching 4x12. The guy at the music store sold me (and my Dad who was footing the bill) on it because it "sounds like a Marshall and is cheaper". Well, my untrained ear didn't know the difference, so we got it. It sucked (although I'd love to take another stab at it now that I know what I'm doing). Although, when I played through a Marshall, it, too, sucked, mainly because, as it turned out, I sucked. That's the thing about tube amps, if you suck, they suck. Very unforgiving.

With that "Marshall sucks" mindset, my next two amps were Carvins. Decent amps, although by that time I was relying on a Roland GP-8 for my sound. My first amp where I let the amp actually determine my tone was a 5150 (first version), which I loved. I found that by turning the mid control "too far", it basically would short out the entire eq circuit and just give me the raw tone of my guitar, it roared. Down the line, I grabbed a Laney GH100L cause the 5150 was too "metal" for the gig I was in, it, too, ruled. To this day, I've never gotten a tone as close to Van Halen's old sound as with that Laney. Sadly, those two heads, along with 2 mint 5150 cabs, a few guitars and rack/pedal FX were stolen in mid 2001. Arrrggghh!

After that I went with Line 6 because, well, to replace all the FX I'd lost and still get decent tone, it was a bargain. Since then I've used a good bit of Line 6 gear and been generally pleased with it. I recorded a demo a few months ago with a Grammy nominated producer, we ended up using a PodXT live direct for all the sounds, and I'm generally happy with them.

Rewind to last year. I came upon what I thought was a good "investment deal" on a Marshall half stack. a 1986 50w JCM800 2205 (and in a purple head unit no less), along with a 1979 260 watt 4x12 cab (Checkerboard grill cloth), $750 for the whole thing. Well, of course I jumped on it. My plan was to basically store it and let it's value go up. Well, since it was my first Marshall, I just had to take it to a gig (not exactly a rock gig, mostly Funk, R&B, a little rock) and was blown away by it! I was playing things I'd never even thought of, and people were freaking on my tone. The clean sounds were ok, but the distorted sounds were where I was blown away.

A couple months ago, I decided to further test fate and snagged a 1982 JCM800 2204 off of eBay. I was also able to find another 260 watt cab, albeit this one from 1982 with a black grill cloth (which I plan on replacing with the checkerboard as I like it's look better and have the material for it). Since receiving the amp & running both of them together, I've been in tone heaven like never before. I've decided to ditch the "high tech" gear, bought some stompboxes for the FX I wanted and have never been happier with my tone.

Moral of the story - I was a devout anti Marshall guy, crusader even, for nearly 20 years. What am I playing now? Marshall. Overhyped? Nope.

Interesting story - back in the early 90's, I had the opportunity to play an opening gig with Badlands (Jake E. Lee). As I've always been a fan, I showed up early, even before Jake. His tech allowed me to check out Jake's rig with his guitar - it sounded like the biggest pile of dog doo I've ever heard. While I was messing with it, Jake showed up. I humbly handed him his guitar and, without him touching a thing on his amp or anything, I was treated to a display of the best tone I've ever heard. Moral? Equipment is one thing, but good tone comes from the fingers, heart and soul.

Oh, and to those who cringe at, or belittle, metal players - I've always considered myself a metal/rock guy. My current gig is neither, it's with the house band at House Of Blues, on a nightly basis I play everything from Jazz to motown, funk, disco, beach music, reggae, hip hop (/me cringes at that last one), blues and a touch of classic rock. I still prefer Metal playing. It's not a matter of being "enlightened" to other styles, it's personal preference. I know a lot of "classic" type players look down upon us metalheads. Doing so is shortsighted. I play different chord inversions, melodies, grooves every night (and day) of the week, yet, give me a good Sevendust/Disturbed type of chunk, that's where I get off. A lot of us are like this - it's what we dig. So before slagging the genre, please take that into consideration.

Thanks for reading!
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

Good post Noisenet. Makes me want a good medium gain marshall head to monkey with. I wonder if it would be cheaper to build a JCM-800 head or buy one outright?... It would be cool to have one made in cherry to match my existing cabinet and my cherry Edana. Of course, I should probably make something entirely different so I'm not locked in one cab and one type of speaker that way.
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

I'll be honest, I've always been a "big rig" kind of guy - never owned a big guitar rig but always drooled when I saw someone who did. I'm tempted to buy a few more classic 800's and cabs and finally be one 'o "those" guys, LOL!
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

I made a kind of half and half decision on that. Got a marshall studio 15 instead of a JCM-800 stack. Figured it was a good price for a sweet combo that had lots of functionality. Close to JCM-800 tone with lower volume and much more portability.
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

Thanks for reading!
(Had to edit to be able to post)



While I see what you're saying, it doesn't have anything to do with the thread except for the title of the thread. I was simply asking "if marshall is so good, why can't this guy manage to get one to sound good?" It wasn't his chops, that's for sure. Something had to be wrong with the other amps, so harsh and rough... ugh.

Anyway, yes, I agree with all your points. I'm not hating marshall because I'm told to, I just found this demo to be a massive let down for as much hype surrounds the amps.

I would like to either mod my classic 50 or grab a 5150 head down the road though. I just don't see myself forking over the amount of cash it would take to find a decent JCM800 these days.
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

I wonder how many of these Marshall nay-sayers have actually A/B’ed any Marshall amps against other brands with the same guitar and same settings. Even the best amps in the wrong hands have the opportunity to sound terrible at times. You have to understand what guitar/pickup works best for the style and how to properly dial in the amplifier. The Classic 50 has been mentioned a few times, so I’ll use that as an example. $50 says I can go into GC, pick any guitar off the wall I wanted to, plug into a Classic 50, and create sounds that would forever get me banned from the store. In this case, it’s not a matter of the amplifier being inherently bad, but rather a case of me not understanding the amplifier’s capabilities and not taking the time to dial in the right tone. Every tube amp is going to have its sweet spot, and Marshalls are no exception.

My point is that someone playing a stock MIA strat into a jumped plexi with controls dimed clearly does not have any idea where to begin getting good tones out of that amp. Between the plexi, JCM2000, AVT, and Mode Four, the plexi is by far the most temperamental amplifier. Followed by that are the 2000, AVT, and Mode four, with the mode Four being the least temperamental of the bunch. The Mode Four is also the least responsive to guitar changes and dial turns of the bunch. Sounds to me that the reason for the poor demo had little to do with the amplifiers.

Yeah, so I have a hard time calling the greatest rock-and-roll guitar amplifier manufacturer of all time “overrated.” And I owe a “thank you” to whoever said that Marshalls were a “fad.” I haven’t laughed that hard all day.
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

My point is that someone playing a stock MIA strat into a jumped plexi with controls dimed clearly does not have any idea where to begin getting good tones out of that amp............... Sounds to me that the reason for the poor demo had little to do with the amplifiers..

Great Post bro.

As noisenet mentioned..when he played through Jakes rig it sounded like crap...when jake played..well different story. I often find this to be the case. Through my 800, through my JMP, throuogh my Jackson amp, through my Tech 21 Sansamp, through my Line6/Atomic, or through my current Vox modellers..and through a bazillion diff guitars into those...I still pretty much sound the same. We all know the classic story of Nuge plugging into EVHs plexi. Just cos *you* (general "you) sound like @$$ through a given rig doesnt mean someone else will and vice versa. I had a guy on Saturday come up behind me in the music store and say something to the effect of.."that sounds awesome...what are you playing?"....I showed him the barebones ESP $200 M-50 and pointed towards the $150 vox DA15 :laugh2: I sound like that through the custom boutique marshall copy they have there too :shrug: I heard a guy one day at GC with amazing tone. I walked over and saw him shredding on a Epi Zakk Les Paul, into a B-52 Solid state amp :eek13: He sounded alot better than the kid on the other side playing a PRS through a DSL. When the PRS kid left, the shred dude plugged into the DSL, and sounded pretty much the same through the DSL...sounded great.

Point? I thought it was complete BS for years, but the older I get the more I realize much of the "tone" equation is in your fingers. And some peoples fingers sound better through X than they do Y. Just cos the demo guy sounded like crap through the plexi, doesn't mean everyone else does or that the amp/brand is overhyped. As Rid mentioned, a Plexi is an amp that has to be played...they are hard to control, and you have to wrestle with them...alot like a Tele. They will kick your @$$ if you are not up to the challenge. And its' one reason I like later NMVs and 2203s better..not just tonally, but they are easier to play...I suck...I need all the help I can get!:laugh2:
 
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Re: Marshall overhyped?

They are overhyped, because "hype" is a marketing element IMO. They're overhyped by the company. They freely use "get that Marshall sound" while marketing mediocre mid-level tube, hybrid, and solid state amps. The "Marshall" sound to me is Plexis, 800's, and hot rodded "Metal" 800's. Not 900's, or most of what came afterwards. They offer many good amps today, but the current crop doesn't really benefit from the rich heritage of Marshall, until you get into their higher value offerings. Again, not that they're making bad amps, or bad sounding amps, but if I see the Marshall logo on some new rock/metal amp, the Marshall name bears NO additional meaning than Crate/Peavey/Traynor/Fender/insert any name here. The fact is, any of the other major brands today has an equally good shot at getting the "Marshall" tone as Marshall themselves, because they've completely homogenized their mid-level offerings and below.

But those classic Marshalls are among the only amps that can nail that sound. So those models are not overhyped. In other words, a used 800, retubed and biased, is a great amp. Put a few grit boxes in front of it and you have a great rig, worthy of ALL the hype. Take a Plexi to a blues gig with a TS and you've got another great rig. Made in China $349 S.S. big box special? It's overhyped. JCM900 (complete with solid state "distortion" circuit) yes overhyped. I'd rather have a good 800 with a Taiwanese DS-1 in front of it.

Here's another observation. The ear piercing upper midrange and treble region (roughly 3khz-7khz) is the first part of most guitarists' hearing to go. It's also the first area that we experience temporary fatigue over a long listening period. That part of the sound will deteriorate over a night of gigging or practicing. (without earplugs anyway) That's precisely the area where the "Marshall" tone is most prominent. It helped guitarists "cut through the mix" from the 60's through the 80's. But now, with modern recording techniques and stereo systems, some prefer a more balanced, full-range guitar tone. There's more room in today's CD production for ALL the instruments, and a guitarist doesn't need to have the Marshall to occupy and dominate his space within the mix. He can take a larger chunk of frequency range, and the mix will remain clear. The cutting Marshall tone is still a great tone, but other amp manufacturers are building that into their amps, along with other great tones at your fingertips, too. The Plexis and 800's are limiting in today's environment, where you can usually get a good Fender clean, Marshall grit, and Boogie lead out of just one amp.

You can easily tell the old schoolers who didn't wear ear plugs. They're diming their Plexis, and guess what? They're also the same guys who don't think the JB is bright!:laugh2:
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

JCM900 (complete with solid state "distortion" circuit) yes overhyped. I'd rather have a good 800 with a Taiwanese DS-1 in front of it.

A DS-1 is also a solid state distortion circuit so this statement is pretty rediculous IMO. I'm not looking to start an argument, just pointing out how silly that sounds. The difference is the pedal is on the floor rather than in the amp and it's before the first gain stage rather than after it.

That circuit in the 900's (the MkIII anyway) is a group of 4 diodes that are arranged in a rectifier configuration. The "Gain Sensitivity" knob controls how much that recitifier actually clips. With it all the way down, they're effectively removed from the circuit and all the crunch is from the preamp tubes. There is an opamp at the tail end of the preamp as well which is used to drive the effects loop, not distortion. In the SL-X (MkIV), an additional preamp tube and 2 gain stages replaced that rectifier diode configuration. JCM800's used diodes and opamps as well, even the beloved Jubilee.
 
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Re: Marshall overhyped?

FrankFalbo might have nailed it when he mentioned the High-Mid/High frequencies being the first thing to go in a guitarist's hearing. Perhaps the guy's lost a little of his hearing. Also, just because the guy may have great dexterity, killer knowledge and amazing chops, without "working" the amp, it will sound like crap. I also believe that your "finger tone" will adapt as you play a certain amp for a period of time (months/years). Like in my assessment of Jake's tone - at the time I was playing in a Metal band, Yngwie/Van Halen style playing, heavy chunky rhythms. I was using a GP8 into a Carvin amp with tons of Gain. So playing on a Marshall, where you have to work the amp, it sounded thin and uninspiring. Now that I've been working Marshalls for several months, my "finger tone" has changed. It's most noticable when I play through my Line 6 rig (which I do with my cover band, more feasible and I'm not allowed to have ANY real stage volume). What's most noticable is when I plug into my Marshalls the next day, there's a "reaquainting" period, the first few seconds sound like poo because I've reverted back to my old fingering style. Once I again become acclimated to the Marshall, boom, tone deluxe!

So why, you may be asking, not just stick with what I've been used to? Honestly because the feel and response I get out of the Marshalls when working them right, even on a bad day, are 200% better than anything else I've ever used on a great day. It's a much more satisfying experience.

But if you've not put any time in with Marshalls, do not expect to plug in and experience the holy grail. Rarely does that happen......
 
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Re: Marshall overhyped?

A DS-1 is also a solid state distortion circuit so this statement is pretty rediculous IMO. I'm not looking to start an argument, just pointing out how silly that sounds.
Nah, no argument here. On the contrary, it's more a statement of preference than anything else, not an assertion of one being better than the other. That's why I said "I'd rather..." I've just always found it laughable that Marshall chose to address the "hot rodded Marshall" lust of the 80's/90's "guitar hero" era by building in clipping diodes. I'd rather have an 800, and control my SS grit from outside the amp. In reality if I had an 800, I'd probably run it with the SD-1 too. I'd rather pick my own front end poison.

It correlates to the "hype" argument, which is what this thread is about, because there's a wide gap between the perception of what a Marshall is and should be, vs. what they actually are today. And I repeat, this does not go for their expensive products, moreso the way they themselves hype their midlevel and down products. I'm not even saying their mid-level and below products are bad, either. They're overhyped, because people inappropriately attach the history of the company to today's big box retailer specials. Most brand names are overhyped anyway. And when it came to the 900, they launched it with the "hype" of a hot rodded tube amp. No one knew there were clipping diodes, and if they could've kept it secret forever, they would have. 1990's ads that claim the solid state 9000 series preamp captured the tone of a Marshall because it IS a Marshall is hype. Fender's SRV Strat is hype. There are even rumors that encased in black epoxy, Dumble has a TS-9 style circuit inside his amps. That's hype. I define hype as a basic gap between perception and reality, and I think since the 900 era, Marshall can indeed be accused of over hyping.

Noisenet you nailed it too. Part of the hype is "buy this amp and you'll sound like this guy" and with Marshalls there is more to it. If you're used to a Solid State Crate with fully saturated gain, and you switch to a Marshall (all tube variety) hoping to sound like Zakk Wylde, you'll soon realize why he's got the ZWOD or SD-1 in front of the amp.
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

you dont need a pointy guitar to play metal anyway, look at wylde, yngwie, iommi, and (some of the time) Priest. they dont use pointy guitars. I think using a strat is fine for metal, only little kids think pointy guitars are only for metal, and strats for country.


Thanks for the sig! :banana:
 
Re: Marshall overhyped?

Heya FrankFalbo,
Funny you should mention it, I use an SD-1 in front of my Marshalls. Though the 2205 has plenty of gain for me (although I believe it is a clipped diode), I back off of the gain and let the SD-1 do it's thing. Along with some other pedals, I run from the SD-1 into a Boss Super Chorus to stereo-ize (new word for the day, LOL) the signal. I'm also running an additional gain booster AFTER the SD-1 and EQ, the SD Pickup Booster, for extra kick when needed (when I'm having a Yngwie moment or something). I use pretty low output pickups in my Strats, so this helps. But for metal crunch, I don't like it that distorted, which is why I use 2 OD pedals. Doing it this way, with the two different flavor 800's (2204 & 2205) really gives me a nice blend as they are two very different sounding heads.
 
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