Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

Uk Ant

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I have been leant a Marshall 100w Vintage Modern from a friend of mine as since they came out I've wanted to hear one as, on paper, it sounds like my ideal amp and possibly the one to get (although the 50w) when I have the money for a new amp.
So how does my trusty old Ashdown Fallen angel stack up against the true british might of Marshall.

Well so far I've not been able to crank the Marshall up so these are initial impressions at domestic levels.

I used the same cab for both heads (not at the same time) just to keep things fair.

First up on a clean setting I have to give it to the Marshall for being that bit warmer without going wooly, but it's by no means as good as the old JMP I cleaned up for a friend a few months back.

Twiddling with the detail and body preamp controls was interesting and is a nice feature for tailoring the sound rather than being stuck with one given sound. The problem for me occurs when you shift the dynamic range from low to high and this may be where I finally learn that the "marshall" sound is just not for me.
It does give you that big old growl you'd expect and as the VM is not designed as a high gain amp I was not surprised that the level of gain available was no where near that of the Ashdown.
But part of me expected it to be a bit smoother when the gain was up and it's just not.
Perhaps it will smooth out more when the power tubes are given more of a working but as it's a 100w that could be a little excessive on the old volume stakes.
I'll drag it's mighty weight along to band tomorrow to see how it fairs when giving some more beans but I suspect that it may well be taken off the desired acquisitions list, not sure what I'd go for instead; although I've been quite impressed with the Engls I've heard.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

Just had another play and I really don't like the sound of the Marshall when driven and I can't see it getting that much better when loud.

Perhaps my trusty Ashdown is better than I thought :)
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

yes - after getting over the initial "yay" of having a Marshall, the VM was extremely disappointing. I much prefer(ed) the DSL 50 I got.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

Have you tried any Cornfords yet ? I bet you'd love the Roadhouse 30.

I'd love to as, from what I hear on the grapevine, they are the business, but they're not cheap and I'm not sure 30w would do it :)
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

They simply put the wrong tubes in that Marshall, so the whole amp doesn't behave like an EL-34 Marshall. It has a nice tubby clean tone, but when it's kicked into OD, it sounds harsh and voiced wrong.

On paper, I was ready to enjoy playing the amp, but once I did, I realized there was very little about the amp I liked.

I don't understand Marshall anymore. The potential for them to make great amps is huge, yet they keep hitting left and right of center. It's almost like they need Reinhold Bogner, Greg Germino, or Bruce Egnater to tear apart a few of their amps, put them back together, and hand them back to Marshall, ready to mass produce.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

+1 on brands such as Cornford.

In my opinion, the Marshall JMP-1 is not the best yardstick by which to compare all-valve amplification. Too many IC op-amp chips.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

yes - after getting over the initial "yay" of having a Marshall, the VM was extremely disappointing. I much prefer(ed) the DSL 50 I got.

Must say I'd rather have one of the JCM2000 range, my friends TSL60 is much smoother.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

Ooh, they do a Roadhouse 50, and it's not horrendously expensive, but will it have enough gain for those times I just need to go over the top :)
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

They simply put the wrong tubes in that Marshall, so the whole amp doesn't behave like an EL-34 Marshall. It has a nice tubby clean tone, but when it's kicked into OD, it sounds harsh and voiced wrong.

....

We need somebody to swap in some EL34's and see how or if it changes. I also wonder if the extra pre-amp tube isn't set up right???? Wonder how it would sound with 12AY in that slot??
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

In my opinion, the Marshall JMP-1 is not the best yardstick by which to compare all-valve amplification. Too many IC op-amp chips.

It wasn't a JMP-1 (looking at my original post it does read that way I guess, I=1!) it was a late '73 JMP50 of some variety. One of the first PCB based ones, really nice clean sound :)
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

Actually took the VM to band tonight.
Plugged it in, cranked it up and... was still disappointed.
Clean sound is good, but I wouldn't say it blows the ashdown out of the water.
Hit the dirty button and it sounds better than it did at domestic levels, but not a patch on the ashdown. Oddly it's got really poor low end when it's driving and it's sound a bit harsh and brittle where the Ashdown sounds dirty, smooth and big.
So I turned it off and plugged the old faithful Ashdown in. The more I use this old thing the more I'm coming to understand that's actually a pretty good amp. Ok so I've swapped tubes and modded bits here and there, but it never sounded that bad to start with, and every change I've made has always been quite a minor improvement in tone.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

What tubes are you using in Ash Down?

A mix of JJ's and Tung-sol's in the pre and JJ's in the power.

Thinking of trying some other types, especially in the phase inverter stage and the power, just to see what it sounds like :)
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

I've played several Vintage Moderns and thought each sound sounded like utter sh!te.

Shocked me, really, because (as GJ said) it looked so good on paper.

I did play a JCM 800 reissue recently that completely rocked my socks, though, so Marshall isn't 100% fail these days.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

Cornford Roadhouse gain - it depends what stuff you play I suppose. I think it has tons of gain and I only use about a third of what's available. Volume wise it's a loud 30 watter - halfway up is enough to play with a loud drummer. I was using a Laney VC50 but it had way more volume than was practical in most gigging situations. With 30 watts you get to hit the power amp a bit harder.

However, if you're happy with the Ashdown why bother ? From what I've read (never heard one) they were good amps that suffered from poor build quality. If you've modded it to the extent that you can rely on it you might not need anything else.

If you go on the Cornford site there are a number of sound clips (audio only) with Guthrie Govan demonstrating the Roadhouse from mild gain to all out shriek. The Youtube clips are garbage and do not represent this amp at all well.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

I've played several Vintage Moderns and thought each sound sounded like utter sh!te.

Shocked me, really, because (as GJ said) it looked so good on paper.

I did play a JCM 800 reissue recently that completely rocked my socks, though, so Marshall isn't 100% fail these days.

Well there's not much wrong with the 2000's really, and I'd say they sound better than my ashdown, at a pinch.

Oddly it does sound a bit like an old PCB JMP when cranked to the nines but without blowing ya windows out, but the lack of low end was a tad surprising.

Considering one of these things would set you back the thick end of £800 and is essentially only a single channel amp with a boost button and expect a great deal more tone for ya money.

Ok, the Marshall feels more solid, but for over twice the price I'd also expect to sound good.

Not tried a JVM yet, perhaps they sound better!
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

Cornford Roadhouse gain - it depends what stuff you play I suppose. I think it has tons of gain and I only use about a third of what's available. Volume wise it's a loud 30 watter - halfway up is enough to play with a loud drummer. I was using a Laney VC50 but it had way more volume than was practical in most gigging situations. With 30 watts you get to hit the power amp a bit harder.

However, if you're happy with the Ashdown why bother ? From what I've read (never heard one) they were good amps that suffered from poor build quality. If you've modded it to the extent that you can rely on it you might not need anything else.

If you go on the Cornford site there are a number of sound clips (audio only) with Guthrie Govan demonstrating the Roadhouse from mild gain to all out shriek. The Youtube clips are garbage and do not represent this amp at all well.

Just had a quick listen and they do sound the business, luckily I'm not in a financial situation to buy one.
Yes, the Ashdown's, not just the guitar amps, suffer from dreadful reliability issues.
But at some point I will need a new amp as the Ashdown can't really be trusted long term.
 
Re: Marshall vintage Modern verses Modded Ashdown

The JVM has a ton more gain on tap and it uses EL34's.

The KT-66 has a lot more headroom than an EL34. It will retain some glassy-ness, until it's really pushed very hard.

Lack of bottom could be simply how the pre-amp is voiced, or the output tranny, or both. It should not be from the KT-66's as they normally have plenty of bottom. I wonder what Re-issue KT-66's Marshall is using here? Some of the more recent Chinese lots have rather a bad rep on the more technical sites.

I still wonder what a VM will do with a good set of EL34's.
 
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