Mesa Mark VII

[NegativeEase]

Good luck. I'm interested in the V90 or the VII.

I guess if you think you would need and use all of that in one amp, or have limited space, or you can only own one amp etc etc -it makes sense.

but if not, for the same amount of money you could own all three of these GOAT amps:

65 Fender Deluxe combo, Vox AC15, Marshall SV20C (in the JMP or JCM800/900 flavor) new and maybe a extra cab or two (just for perspective on the cost)

 

[Demanic]

I remember seeing the Mesa Marks being advertised in Guitar Player magazine in the 80's. They were going for~$500.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[Top-L]

I guess if you think you would need and use all of that in one amp, or have limited space, or you can only own one amp etc etc -it makes sense.

but if not, for the same amount of money you could own all three of these GOAT amps:

65 Fender Deluxe combo, Vox AC15, Marshall SV20C (in the JMP or JCM800/900 flavor) new and maybe a extra cab or two (just for perspective on the cost)

I don't need anything. Its a buy once, tweak for 20 years kind of amp for me.

If I "need" anything, its a large tube amp with headroom. No lunchbox or smaller amps for me.

 

[Mincer]

I guess that they are priced about the same as a really nice LP. I bet they will sell a lot of them, even though I am not the target market.

 

[Top-L]

I guess that they are priced about the same as a really nice LP. I bet they will sell a lot of them, even though I am not the target market.

What other options are there in an amp that has great lead channels, but also allows multiple shades of clean/fat/crunch?

I've been asking this question. If not a Mark, then what? The only other one I know of is the JVM410.

Most "metal" amps with high gain lead channels usually have limited clean channel and don't respond well to boosts.

 

[80's_Thrash_Metal]

I say MEH-sa

 

[Sirion]

So, basically a Mesa JVM, which I am all for, if they had only been able to ship them to Europe. That apparently is too much to ask of Gibson.

 

[JMP/HBE]

So, basically a Mesa JVM, which I am all for, if they had only been able to ship them to Europe. That apparently is too much to ask of Gibson.

.

 

[Mincer]

What other options are there in an amp that has great lead channels, but also allows multiple shades of clean/fat/crunch?

I've been asking this question. If not a Mark, then what? The only other one I know of is the JVM410.

Most "metal" amps with high gain lead channels usually have limited clean channel and don't respond well to boosts.

I have a list of stuff they left off this time. Adding that back in while keeping the new stuff would make a better amp. BTW, another super amp is the Steve Morse ENGL, which has a ton of mid controls to really shape the sound.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

What other options are there in an amp that has great lead channels, but also allows multiple shades of clean/fat/crunch?

I've been asking this question. If not a Mark, then what? The only other one I know of is the JVM410.

Most "metal" amps with high gain lead channels usually have limited clean channel and don't respond well to boosts.

I think a Multiwatt Recto's clean and pushed modes are pretty good. Nothing like the old 2Ch's cleans which sucked like bad, LOL.

Plus the Vintage and Modern mode to choose from for your high-gain needs.

Or maybe look for a Roadster. The Roadster had the Lone Star's cleans and mid gain tones, I think.

A 5150III's cleand and crunch channels are pretty good as well. Plus, pfff, 5150III. It's like the ultimate high-gain tone, IMO. At least if you're going for like a contemprary style. The blue channel responds quite well to boosts. Honestly, I've always felt the blue channel in a 5150III is kinda like a modernized JCM800 tone. Which I guess is why it's never been my favorite, but it does have that vibe if you're going for it. Although, yeah. The red channel doesn't play all that well with boosts. I mean, most of us use it for metal, but it's a Van Halen amp after all.

I'd take either over a JVM any day of the weak, personally. I do like the JVM, don't get me wrong, but I just think a JVM's lower gain gain tones are kind of jack-of-all-trades kinda deal. I'd almost say the same about the JVM's high-gain channel too, but it can be great if you dial it right.

 

[NegativeEase]

So, basically a Mesa JVM, which I am all for, if they had only been able to ship them to Europe. That apparently is too much to ask of Gibson.

Ill be in Norway in September -let me know if I need to bring one to you :14:

 

[Sirion]

Ill be in Norway in September -let me know if I need to bring one to you :14:

Thanks! I live in Sweden these days, so that would unfortunately replace one VAT barrier with another. With amps there is also the matter of differing voltages in the US and Europe. I had better wait.

Dare I ask what kind of mischief you are up to in Norway?

 

[Animal]

FFS Mesa, stop screwing around and just release a single channel 2C++ that does NOTHING else!

 

[Top-L]

I think a Multiwatt Recto's clean and pushed modes are pretty good. Nothing like the old 2Ch's cleans which sucked like bad, LOL.

Plus the Vintage and Modern mode to choose from for your high-gain needs.

Or maybe look for a Roadster. The Roadster had the Lone Star's cleans and mid gain tones, I think.

A 5150III's cleand and crunch channels are pretty good as well. Plus, pfff, 5150III. It's like the ultimate high-gain tone, IMO. At least if you're going for like a contemprary style. The blue channel responds quite well to boosts. Honestly, I've always felt the blue channel in a 5150III is kinda like a modernized JCM800 tone. Which I guess is why it's never been my favorite, but it does have that vibe if you're going for it. Although, yeah. The red channel doesn't play all that well with boosts. I mean, most of us use it for metal, but it's a Van Halen amp after all.

I'd take either over a JVM any day of the weak, personally. I do like the JVM, don't get me wrong, but I just think a JVM's lower gain gain tones are kind of jack-of-all-trades kinda deal. I'd almost say the same about the JVM's high-gain channel too, but it can be great if you dial it right.

I think I found my amp. Engl Savage 120 Mk2.

Its focus is metal and shred. Its tight and its marshallesque with an upper mid push, great for speed metal and lead guitar playing. But it also seems to run the full gamut from pristence clean to fat to low and mid gain, and it does a credible JCM800 style tone on the crunch I channel. Plus all the options are midi switchable.

I would just get a 5150iii, except that it doesn't seem to have the versatility in the clean/low/classic gain area. (I could be wrong on this.) And a new 5150iii is really getting up there in price. 2k is too much for a one trick pony.

Would it be crazy to pick a Savage 120 over a Mark VII? My feeling is that with the Mark, I'd find my favorite mode(s) and use them all the time, constantly tweaking the graphic EQ. With the Savage 120, all the mode switches can be saved as part of a preset, so instead of having three switchable channels, you get four switchable channels with many variations. Each variation can be saved in its own preset so it ends up being more than four switchable sounds.

I also like the full size chassis and the way it looks more than the Mark.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Oh, no. The Savage sounds soooooo pissed off. That's another amp I wouldn't mind owning!

And yeah, the design/looks in those ENGLs is just incredible. I love how sleek they look as well.

But I'd have more trust in the build quality of a Mesa, TBH. Or even EVH. I think people often mistake ENGLs as boutique amps, but the truth of the matter is they're just priced that way because they're imports. As far as build quality, they're just probably the German Peaveys.

Still, killer designs with fantastic tones. ESPECIALLY that Savage.

But if you think the EVH stuff doesn't do crunchy gain and good cleans, I think you might have not tried one thoroughly enough. It does it in spades. The cleans are after all, Fender-based. And the blue channel is somewhat of an 800/5150 hybrid. All of the channels do have the tight, modern EVH feel, though. So if you want something like a spongy bassman of plexi, you're probably not going to get that. But both the blue channel and green channel do fantastic crunch and clean tones with a hint of modern thrown in, TBH. I mean, after all, the power section on those is REALLY open, headroom-y and clean. It's not meant to give you the sag of a vintage amp.

The full-on 100W EVH's are definitely not one-trick ponies. People use them for metal, yeah, because the red channel is just ultimate brutality. But like I said, it's a Van Halen amp, after all. If you do look into those, I'd take a look at the Stealth of the EL34 version rather than the standard 6L6, though.

 

[Top-L]

Oh, no. The Savage sounds soooooo pissed off. That's another amp I wouldn't mind owning!

And yeah, the design/looks in those ENGLs is just incredible. I love how sleek they look as well.

But I'd have more trust in the build quality of a Mesa, TBH. Or even EVH. I think people often mistake ENGLs as boutique amps, but the truth of the matter is they're just priced that way because they're imports. As far as build quality, they're just probably the German Peaveys.

Still, killer designs with fantastic tones. ESPECIALLY that Savage.

But if you think the EVH stuff doesn't do crunchy gain and good cleans, I think you might have not tried one thoroughly enough. It does it in spades. The cleans are after all, Fender-based. And the blue channel is somewhat of an 800/5150 hybrid. All of the channels do have the tight, modern EVH feel, though. So if you want something like a spongy bassman of plexi, you're probably not going to get that. But both the blue channel and green channel do fantastic crunch and clean tones with a hint of modern thrown in, TBH. I mean, after all, the power section on those is REALLY open, headroom-y and clean. It's not meant to give you the sag of a vintage amp.

The full-on 100W EVH's are definitely not one-trick ponies. People use them for metal, yeah, because the red channel is just ultimate brutality. But like I said, it's a Van Halen amp, after all. If you do look into those, I'd take a look at the Stealth of the EL34 version rather than the standard 6L6, though.

The EL34 stealth is a 2500 dollar amplifier, and it has three channels without many switching options or midi.

The Savage 120 is a 3000 dollar amplifier, it has four channels, a ton of options with midi control of them all. I know its a 2K amp at Thomann, its not boutique. OTH, a Mark V manufactured in Mexico would probably cost 2K, so I'm not sure its better quality than a German Savage, just MIA.

To my ears the high gain of 5150 and savage is very similar. They are angry super hot rodded marshall type sounds. The Mark seems to have more low mids and be more syrupy for leads.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Pretty sure Marks are made in the US. It's EVH's that are made in Mexico. But I've had all three of the LBX versions, and they all looked super neatly made inside, and they come with Heyboer and Schumacher transformers. I think it's just Schumachers for the 50 and 100W's. But honestly, I'm bound to defend the MIM stuff because I am Mexican, LOL. But compared to the US-made Krank I also had, I wouldn't say it was any worse. Same brand of transformers, even.

The 50W EVH's do have MIDI, AFAIK. And they're more than loud enough as well. Too bad about the shared EQ's for the clean and blue channels, though.

And yeah Savages do get 5150-ish... somewhat. Just not quite, IMO. I find they're drier, tighter, and more aggressive. Depends on which version of the 5150 we're talking here, but I don't think Savages need to be boosted at all. While, at lest the OG Peavey does. And the blue channel on the III does as well, not because it's not tight, but because it's not very gainy.

And the thing about Marks is they're so tweakable, that I don't think you can say they *have* more low mids in general, because you can just a easily drop that 240 Hz slider right down.

What I have noticed on all the clips is that this newer generation of Marks does seems slightly softer/smoother than the IIC's and III's, or even the IV's.

 

[Top-L]

Pretty sure Marks are made in the US. It's EVH's that are made in Mexico. But I've had all three of the LBX versions, and they all looked super neatly made inside, and they come with Heyboer and Schumacher transformers. I think it's just Schumachers for the 50 and 100W's. But honestly, I'm bound to defend the MIM stuff because I am Mexican, LOL.

The 50W EVH's do have MIDI, AFAIK. And they're more than loud enough as well. Too bad about the shared EQ's for the clean and blue channels, though.

And yeah Savages do get 5150-ish... somewhat. Just not quite, IMO. I find they're drier, tighter, and more aggressive. Depends on which version of the 5150 we're talking here, but I don't think Savages need to be boosted at all. While, at lest the OG Peavey does. And the blue channel on the III does as well, not because it's not tight, but because it's not very gainy.

And the thing about Marks is they're so tweakable, that I don't think you can say they *have* more low mids in general, because you can just a easily drop that 240 Hz slider right down.

What I have noticed on all the clips is that this newer generation of Marks does seems slightly softer/smoother than the IIC's and III's, or even the IV's.

I will never play them all so I can't make valid comparisons. I am just talking about what I've heard in multiple clips, so the caveat is that I don't have that experience. I have played 5150s, but not the new Fender versions.

I'm looking for an amp that can cover *all* the bases. I think the Savage covers similar ground as the Mark V, but it doesn't have the pedigree of the Mark. Its not trying to recreate historic amps from different periods.

What I havent heard from the Mesa is the "marshall sound". I haven't heard that bark from a Mark amplifier. Maybe it can by using the eq sliders.

But I do hear a marshall in the Savage crunch.

Why not get a JVM410H then? Noise issues, and its not clear that it does the high gain as well as the Engl, it doesnt have same depth of switching options or midi control. And the design is 15 years old.

So.. my opinion of the amps based on research alone...

Mark V/VII- Covers most ground but it doesnt have the angry marshall sound in it. Midi switching is very basic, you set the three channels and can switch between them. The $500 price premium of the Vii over the other amps would cover a nice IR loader, so that feature is not a major selling point.

JVM410- Is the closest and most able to conjure the majority of classic/rock/metal sounds, which is important for someone covering songs. It is very noisy and raw. Four independent channels is the most straight forward channel switcher. Still needs a boost for some kinds of sounds. Good midi switching options. 15 year old design due for a refresh. The JS model is no longer made and it had noise gates.

5150iii- Probably the least versatile. Doesnt have a wide palette of sounds in the clean to fat to mild drive area. Unknown if it can do classic rock/metal tones, and if so, may not have enough channels for separate high gain lead and rhythm. High gain metal sounds have a pedigree, no boost needed. No midi switching in the 100 watt head. Doesnt really need it because it doesnt have many options to switch, can use solenoids in fx processor.

Engl Savage 120 Mk2- High gain that doesnt require a boost. IMO, similar to the 5150 high gain in the angry marshall/soldano family. Enough channels to set up every level of gain, and seems to have good versatility in the clean and low gain area, with switchable input pad, bright, and pre shape. Has alot of global options which are midi switchable and can be applied to any channel. Best midi implementation. Good built in noise gate.

On paper the Savage wins for me.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yeah, for your application, the Savage would be what I'd go for as well. Doesn't hurt that the high-gain tones are so raw and agressive either.

 

[chadd]

I love how they’re touting it as an “icon” before the verdict is really in. Skipping VI makes it feel more like an iPhone than anything anyone really needs.

Icon is typical marketing fluff and/or a reference to the Mark line overall. As for going to VII, They didn't release the VI due to the pandemic and continued to work on it until it surpassed what the VI was going to be, so they gave it a new name.

Correct me if I’m wrong but is there not a limit to just how many features, signal paths and circuits you can have in the analog tube domain before it’s impractical and can’t be done without losing sound quality?

The limits are driven by form factor and cost. There's definitely a limit with a hand wired single channel amp. I also think that's why they omitted the master volume, so many people complained about the sound difference with the loop engaged on other Mesa products.

How long before they have to go the Fender Tone Master route? If I’m thinking of the right one that uses digital, not to model a whole bunch of different amps but just its own sounds. You might find most of the intended consumers are like you or I and know they don’t really need one, which raises the question for me of who the Mark VII is for that the Mark V wouldn’t do the job for?

Mesa has always been a boutique brand, very different animal from Fender. Honestly, Gibson has been as well. I'd love to see a resurgence of the old GA-5, -20, -40 Gibson amps and a Tonemaster style option would be kinda cool. That said, I would expect them to be tube if something like that was released.

Is it really different enough for wealthy home amp collectors to care about? Anyone who tours or plays any distance where freight is an issue is looking to downsize their rig and the last thing wanted is another tube head. Recording artists who know what they’re doing don’t really need it as they already found their sound or know a Mark VII isn’t somehow going to improve their songwriting or marketability to make it a return on investment worth having and that’s if they even use physical amps at all.

I'd say a majority of touring artists that I've worked (theater and amphitheater) in the last year are still using tube amps. A 40lb head isn't that bad and it's fairly compact for a full size head. It's a hell of a lot better than my Road King II in those regards. It will come down to tone and reliability for the musicians. It will appeal to some and not others. If it doesn't appeal to you, cool. However, it will (and does) appeal to others.

What am I missing?

I keep having this idea that people have their favourite movies from way back and movie studios should just have re-show them in the cinema again instead of trying to reboot old franchises. That’s how you make money off nostalgia. By giving people that same experience they enjoyed the first time.

The same could be said for amps. How about reissuing the Mark IV, as it was when it came out which is surely cheaper to make now?

Rebooting movies allows studios to retain the rights, as most intellectual property rights deals don't allow studios to sit on the properties indefinitely without releasing new material. Plus, a twenty something is a lot more likely to go see a movie with contemporary actors, even if the story is pretty much identical to something released 40 years ago. As much as love the old Bogart movies dad force fed me when I was a kid, they would all bomb if released today. Nostalgia for you is irrelevant to people with different life experiences.

Material costs always go up, as have costs in the US. Only way you're going to produce those amps cheaper is to do it in Asia and use components with looser tolerances. It's a shame they made the JP2C a signature amp, that is pretty much what most metal players I know wanted.


And remember, my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it