Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

The contact I had with Boogie CS was stellar and I am hugely impressed with the company now. My particular amp is one however that went out of production however in 1993 so was really hoping to be able to hook up with a couple folks who are using them in the real world on stage off the boards.
Main issue I am fighting is the way Mesa used a single gain control on both the clean and crunch channel on this amp. When I dial the clean gain to where it's nice round and has just a bit of hair the crunch side is way to buzzy but when I set the crunch where I want it then the clean is to weak and thin sounding. Also can't get a fat smooth singing tone out of the crunch using the Auto setting on the graphic like I want. The controls on this amp are set up and respond much differently than I am used to so getting with a few that have run the amp in the real world would help. Amp has potential to be a long term keeper if I can sort a couple things out here.

I wonder if there is a separate gain control mod (like the R2 Mark III mod) that can be done.
 
Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

Well that was cool. I called Mesa. They offered to pay for shipping to California so their tech could look at it. The guy who put my amp together in 1980 still works for them and he does the repair work on all the old Mesa's now. So it will be back to him after 34 years. I thought that was pretty cool and so far Mesa's customer service is awesome.

Very cool! I don't want to say, "I told you so!", but....um...I did.... :)



The contact I had with Boogie CS was stellar and I am hugely impressed with the company now. My particular amp is one however that went out of production however in 1993 so was really hoping to be able to hook up with a couple folks who are using them in the real world on stage off the boards.

Main issue I am fighting is the way Mesa used a single gain control on both the clean and crunch channel on this amp. When I dial the clean gain to where it's nice round and has just a bit of hair the crunch side is way to buzzy but when I set the crunch where I want it then the clean is to weak and thin sounding. Also can't get a fat smooth singing tone out of the crunch using the Auto setting on the graphic like I want. The controls on this amp are set up and respond much differently than I am used to so getting with a few that have run the amp in the real world would help. Amp has potential to be a long term keeper if I can sort a couple things out here.


The single gain control of this amp is the main reason these amps were not more popular. It is of course, the weak point; sort of making all the settings some sort of compromise when you are using the amp as a live channel switcher. This isn't an issue in the studio where you can set up the amp for a specific tone for each track. One of the things you might want to play with is a clean boost; I use a DOD FX-10 Preamp that is always on with just a moderate boost and that seems to real fatten up the tone with my Mark IIIs (admittedly a different animal).

The tone controls on these amps do work, unlike some amps where you can spin the dials and not hear any change. This is where you really need to sit down with the Owner's Manual and read how the controls interact; it can save you a lot of time. I regularly go over my Mark IV manual--about once a year, even though I've had it for more than ten years now. LOL! I've only had the Mark V a year and a half now, and the Owner's Manual has really helped make me aware of all the potential of this amp. I was able to dial usable tones in less than five minutes with all three channels of the Mark V, but there is a lot more to this amp. So, the Manual is SO important, and there should be some recommended settings to get you started. Remember though, it is a child of the early '80s, so you won't find much in the way of settings for "Norwegian Death Metal Bluegrass", LOL!

And when you start feeling more adventurous, you can look at doing some tube swapping, i.e. "Amplifier Blueprinting". Different manufacturer's tubes each have their own tonal characteristics. Some of my Mesa amps have as many as FOUR different brands of 12AX7s in the preamp section; typically Mesa, Groove Tubes, JJ and E-H. Sometimes an E-H will sound great in V1, but a whole amp full of them can make the amp a bit too edgy; while all JJ's made the amp too dark. The now OOP GT-12AX7-M Mullard clone was a perfect blend of brightness and creaminess in V1, but poor QC issues (noise and microphonics) kept me from using them in other positions. Some brands worked well for the RHYTHM channel sockets, and others worked better for the LEAD channel sockets. So check out the tube function chart--you might want to experiment with various tubes in the preamp sockets to see if you can find a mix that will work well for both RHYTHM and LEAD channels.

And don't forget: ALWAYS take a spare 12AX7 with you to your gigs. It can be a real life-saver. (Good Idea to have a spare set of power tubes, too!)

For power tubes, I like the Mesa 6L6s, and the Winged C/S.E.D. tubes. I think in the Mesa combos, these two have the best tone and reliability. I also like the Winged C/S.E.D. EL-34s in my Simul-Class amps. If I get anything other than Mesa tubes, I get them from a tube vendor that knows what range to select for a Mesa amp. These combo amps have a lot of power in a small package, so you'll want to select tubes that are durable, noise-free and non-microphonic; that goes for the pre-amp tubes as well.



I wonder if there is a separate gain control mod (like the R2 Mark III mod) that can be done.

I don't know if they do a mod for this, but that is a TERRIFIC idea!

Bill
 
Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

I got a call back from someone, its $400 for them to look at it. lol

The guy told me though some common problems with my amp, mainly the push pull pots. I'm going to have another tech iin my area replace all of them in the amp and look at it once more. If this one can't figure it out, I'll go from there.
 
Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

It happens when the signal is dying off, so instead of that beautiful feedback it goes into a tv type static.

This is possibly a high frequency oscillation-beyond the range of human hearing- canceling out the wave form.

Possibilities;

Filter caps-Bad filter caps can cause high frequency instability as well as low frequency instability (motorboating). They may not be supplying enough juice to sustain the note during high gain as well.

Coupling-preamp caps gone bad-particularly any electroytic caps in the pre-amp or bias section.

Microphonic tube, but is microphonic beyond the range of human hearing. Switch out pre's one at at a time for known good one.

Some tube amp gurus say replace all electrolytic caps every six years.

Cross talk between leads and/or traces so adjust how leads are layed.
 
Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

Thanks man. I'll bring them to my techs attention. I really want to get this working again. It is such a great sounding amp.
 
Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

The single gain control of this amp is the main reason these amps were not more popular. It is of course, the weak point; sort of making all the settings some sort of compromise when you are using the amp as a live channel switcher. This isn't an issue in the studio where you can set up the amp for a specific tone for each track. One of the things you might want to play with is a clean boost; I use a DOD FX-10 Preamp that is always on with just a moderate boost and that seems to real fatten up the tone with my Mark IIIs (admittedly a different animal).

The tone controls on these amps do work, unlike some amps where you can spin the dials and not hear any change. This is where you really need to sit down with the Owner's Manual and read how the controls interact; it can save you a lot of time. I regularly go over my Mark IV manual--about once a year, even though I've had it for more than ten years now. LOL! I've only had the Mark V a year and a half now, and the Owner's Manual has really helped make me aware of all the potential of this amp. I was able to dial usable tones in less than five minutes with all three channels of the Mark V, but there is a lot more to this amp. So, the Manual is SO important, and there should be some recommended settings to get you started. Remember though, it is a child of the early '80s, so you won't find much in the way of settings for "Norwegian Death Metal Bluegrass", LOL!

And when you start feeling more adventurous, you can look at doing some tube swapping, i.e. "Amplifier Blueprinting". Different manufacturer's tubes each have their own tonal characteristics. Some of my Mesa amps have as many as FOUR different brands of 12AX7s in the preamp section; typically Mesa, Groove Tubes, JJ and E-H. Sometimes an E-H will sound great in V1, but a whole amp full of them can make the amp a bit too edgy; while all JJ's made the amp too dark. The now OOP GT-12AX7-M Mullard clone was a perfect blend of brightness and creaminess in V1, but poor QC issues (noise and microphonics) kept me from using them in other positions. Some brands worked well for the RHYTHM channel sockets, and others worked better for the LEAD channel sockets. So check out the tube function chart--you might want to experiment with various tubes in the preamp sockets to see if you can find a mix that will work well for both RHYTHM and LEAD channels.
Bill
Did exactly as you suggest here and am finally getting the .50 Cal+ dialed in pretty well. So far 5-7 seems the sweet spot on the gain for a solid tone both channels. One thing that was throwing me of on the tube swaps was that V-1 was not the front end on this amp like most it was the lead channel driver, so once Mesa CS gave me that tube chart it went a lot smoother dialing in a tube combo.
This was from this morning at Church running a Hardwire Supernatural Verb and a Boss DD3 in the loop and only a Wah and a Boss CS-3 in the front of the amp with my PRS CU 24. The sound guy was fighting me a little with the mix by cranking around on the faders and pan but otherwise it worked out pretty well this morning and I was pleased with the tones.
https://app.box.com/s/w10patyixnrt5eabc39v
Everything until the very end was on the lead channel running just the time effects and using the guitar controls to clean up. At the very end here I did go to the clean with the Compressor.
Straight up it's no match for my Zinky in pure rich plug straight in tone on it's own nor does it have the gain or touch sensitivity but has a much better effects loop and takes in particular time effects in the loop very very well. That changes the whole game and is something I desperately needed for what I am doing right now so looks like the .50 Cal is going to be a keeper.
 
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Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

Andrew,

When your amp does the static thing again, write down details of the day: temperature, humidity, how long you'd been playing the amp, where you have the amp set up...stuff like that. Mystery problems like this are easier to solve when you have a lot of details, even ones that might not seem to matter.

Moisture can cause weird things to happen in electronic circuits. Does this happen in the summer but not in the winter?
 
Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

Andrew,

When your amp does the static thing again, write down details of the day: temperature, humidity, how long you'd been playing the amp, where you have the amp set up...stuff like that. Mystery problems like this are easier to solve when you have a lot of details, even ones that might not seem to matter.

Moisture can cause weird things to happen in electronic circuits. Does this happen in the summer but not in the winter?

I'll record everything I can when it happens again.

That's a possibility. It began happening when it started to get warmer.

I hope the problem is gone for good but part of me know that is wishful thinking. I just am afraid it is going to start doing it in the middle of a gig or something.
 
Re: Mesa really hitting my last nerve.

Call Mesa at 707 778-6565 Ask fro Rick Duvall

He can fix any Mesa amp ever built.
 
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