Messed up my SG's tone

D

DonP

New member
And it wasn't from a pickup swap!

My 1998 SG Standard sounded awesome for 14 years because I never changed a thing! Not even the strings!

It was starting to look ratty with that pickguard clear plastic cover coming off so I decided remove it and to do 4 changes:

1. Strings replaced with GHS Boomers 10 - 46

2. Change tuners from "greenish" keystones to more cream colored keystones. Same tuners, same weights, same mounting

3. Doubled up the ABR-1 thumb wheels. These are stacked on top of each other (no gaps) and are tight on top of the pickguard.

4. Dr. Bore oiled the fretboard.

Before the change, my SG had a warm organic tone. It was fat in the bridge, and almost muddy in the neck. I loved the tone. Great for Black Sabbath and Metal in general.

After the change, it's brash and crashy, like some high-hats crashing together. I can't stand it. Tried using it for Black Sabbath but the warm tone is no longer there. My '63 SG Special now eats it for lunch.


I've tired playing with pickup heights, first trying low, then going high. No real help, but closer was a little fatter.


My thoughts are:

1) Action might be lower from double stacked thumb wheels lower than the original single thumb wheel height.

2) The "solid coupling" of the dual thumb wheels different than a single

3) Most likely, the strings. The old Gibson strings were not worn even though very old, but the size and composition compared to the GHS Boomers is a likely cause of the tone change.


My best guess so far: I'm going to try raising the action first, then pull a set of thumb wheels. And finally if that doesn't work, swap the strings.

I really hate to trash a new set of strings so if anyone has suggestions on how to warm up and mellow out this guitar to get it back to the way it was, that would be great. I'm not swapping pickups or magnets. The 490R/498T sounded great before I hosed it up; they can sound great again. For example, I've never used fast-fret before; how does that stuff change the tone? Any ideas on how to gum-up or deaden the strings? Or suggestions for strings that are "warmer". Not sure which Gibson strings were used but they had red thread wrapped at the ball ends.
 
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Re: Messed up my SG's tone

nickel strings or nickel plateds are good. LaBellas are great. Maybe look at increasing the sting guage too.
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

I'm guessing strings as well. Seriously, 14 years without a string change? Wow. But I just really dislike Boomers as well. I'm not going to recommend a set, since that's such a personal thing, but that's probably the cause. At least you know that those were going to have to change eventually. It's not a problem that you were going to avoid forever.
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

boomers are brash sounding strings.

14 year old strings are going to sound dull. any new set will sound bright by comparison.

pure nickel strings are warm sounding, 11's are warmer than 10's. raising your action cant hurt either
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

agree with the comment about strings - change em to find what you like

funny, i like old strings too .. that new 'zing' just irritates me ... i raise the action so as to get zero fret 'slap' too .... also, consider a light top-heavy bottom gauge set of strings - especially if you like sabbath-like heavy chords ... depending on your environmental factors, leaving the guitar out of the case for a while might age the strings if the air is humid enough where you are ... playing the crap out of them and letting your sweat and finger grime build up on them will help too

can you tweak the EQ of your amp or the tone-knob on the guitar to get a pleasing tone?
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

DonP said:
And it wasn't from a pickup swap!

My 1998 SG Standard sounded awesome for 14 years because I never changed a thing! Not even the strings!

It was starting to look ratty with that pickguard clear plastic cover coming off so I decided remove it and to do 4 changes:

1. Strings replaced with GHS Boomers 10 - 46

2. Change tuners from "greenish" keystones to more cream colored keystones. Same tuners, same weights, same mounting

3. Doubled up the ABR-1 thumb wheels. These are stacked on top of each other (no gaps) and are tight on top of the pickguard.

4. Dr. Bore oiled the fretboard.

Before the change, my SG had a warm organic tone. It was fat in the bridge, and almost muddy in the neck. I loved the tone. Great for Black Sabbath and Metal in general.

After the change, it's brash and crashy, like some high-hats crashing together. I can't stand it. Tried using it for Black Sabbath but the warm tone is no longer there. My '63 SG Special now eats it for lunch.


I've tired playing with pickup heights, first trying low, then going high. No real help, but closer was a little fatter.


My thoughts are:

1) Action might be lower from double stacked thumb wheels lower than the original single thumb wheel height.

2) The "solid coupling" of the dual thumb wheels different than a single

3) Most likely, the strings. The old Gibson strings were not worn even though very old, but the size and composition compared to the GHS Boomers is a likely cause of the tone change.


My best guess so far: I'm going to try raising the action first, then pull a set of thumb wheels. And finally if that doesn't work, swap the strings.

I really hate to trash a new set of strings so if anyone has suggestions on how to warm up and mellow out this guitar to get it back to the way it was, that would be great. I'm not swapping pickups or magnets. The 490R/498T sounded great before I hosed it up; they can sound great again. For example, I've never used fast-fret before; how does that stuff change the tone? Any ideas on how to gum-up or deaden the strings? Or suggestions for strings that are "warmer". Not sure which Gibson strings were used but they had red thread wrapped at the ball ends.
Click to expand...
You are comparing 14 year old string to brand new and you are surprised they are brighter?
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

I'd switch to another set of Gibson strings (same gauge and type you had before, whether they were brite wires or pure nickels), remove the extra set of thumb wheels and get the action back to where it was before.

It'll still sound alot brighter than before since the strings aren't so old, but just turn the tone knobs down a hair to compensate until you break that new set in!
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

14 years without a string change? what the hell are you thinking??? I change my strings after 48 hours of playing time (about)! Once I can feel them beginning to oxidize they are done & I change them, but 14 years is almost abusive to your guitar! How were you able to keep them in tune?
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

I am absolutely 100% positive beyond a shadow of a doubt that the strings you put on there are almost entirely responsible for the tone change.

Toss them.

They're strings, dude. Just put new ones on. It's not brain surgery.

And do what people in this thread told you to do - go with some pure nickel strings, like Curt Mangans, Fender Pure Nickels, or something similar. Pure nickel sounds warmer and fuller than any other type.
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

Bludave said:
14 years without a string change? what the hell are you thinking??? I change my strings after 48 hours of playing time (about)! Once I can feel them beginning to oxidize they are done & I change them, but 14 years is almost abusive to your guitar! How were you able to keep them in tune?
Click to expand...

What he said!! Holy crap, 14 yrs is insane!! I can't go more than a couple weeks without changing them... I bet your ears are not used to a fresh set.
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

Bludave said:
14 years without a string change? what the hell are you thinking???...14 years is almost abusive to your guitar! How were you able to keep them in tune?
Click to expand...

+1. After a while they lose treble and tone quality and become muffled. oil and dirt from your hands corrode them, and they get indentations and contortions from the frets. If you let it go too long a new set of strings sounds very bright and harsh, but only because you gradually got used to the loss of tone with the old ones. Change your strings regularly and you'll have your amp dialed in to a consistent sound! Geez. :smack:
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

Depending on which set you put on, Boomers (imho) are very bright strings. You went from 14 year old mud to ice pick in one step. I agree with everything said...use pure nickel for warm sound and dial in your amp accordingly to get the tone you want. And keep your strings relatively fresh so your tone will be consistent. Then when you change your strings next time you won't experience such a dramatic change.
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

You want to try pure nickel wound strings.

And stop messing with the bridge.
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

sosomething said:
I am absolutely 100% positive beyond a shadow of a doubt that the strings you put on there are almost entirely responsible for the tone change.

Toss them.

They're strings, dude. Just put new ones on. It's not brain surgery.

And do what people in this thread told you to do - go with some pure nickel strings, like Curt Mangans, Fender Pure Nickels, or something similar. Pure nickel sounds warmer and fuller than any other type.
Click to expand...

Not sure that's going to help though. No new set of strings is going to sound like 14 year old strings.
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

Like most other guitar gear these days, I'm sure there is someone out there selling 'reliced' strings.
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

Take it from another guitarist that hates changing strings.

Here are two factors things to help you determine when to change strings. First, you spend more time tuning them than playing them. Next, the strings are worn at least a quarter of the way thorough.

Also, if you dont like bright strings, stary away from GHS Boomers. Used 'em once and never again. They gave instant ice pick, and this was on a LP that had a JB in the bridge.

As already suggested, try a nickel or nickel alloy string. Maybe flatwounds if they are your gauge.

In the words of the great Merle Watson, a flatpicker, "I change my strings at least once a year."
 
Re: Messed up my SG's tone

LOL! you guys are really hung up on the 14 year old strings. TRUST ME they didn't look like 14 year old string. They were still bright and shiney. I don't sweat and have dry hands (so much for aging my Gibsons). Never ever have to worry about "sticky Nitro necks". Also, I have close to 60 guitars, so 14 years is maybe 6 months of use for a person with one guitar. And many of those have young sets of strings. The Charvel ProMod I just put together is very "dark" and "fat" with a JB - an A2 JB. I'm going to swap it out for a regular JB, but this "should be" a bright guitar - maple neck, alder body, OFR (with a 42mm big block). This one has a set of 9 - 42 Boomers.

I think the OEM strings were 9's. I went up a size to 10's. Interesting the replies about taking it up yet another notch to 11s. I always here bigger is warmer / fuller, but then I look at Tony Iommi and his fat tone when using thinner strings. My preferred size is 9-46 Custom Lites.

Tone controls - I'm using those but it's not helping me get back to the tone I used to have.

I did a quick search and found Gibson's Vintage Reissue strings are pure nickel. I'll look for a set of those after doing some messing around with the action. I'll raise it up high and see how that changes the tone.

Thanks for the sugggestions - not to many people think it might be setup related huh?

Oh, and the '63 SG has the same strings on it, and they are fairly fresh too. P90's, you gotta love them.
 
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