Mic for recording demos

E

ericmeyer4

New member
Started a thread about this earlier, but I wasn't specific enough on everything and it drifted off into left field. I figured it was easier to start over than to try and get it back on track.

I make demos for the learning experience and for the fun of it and I am looking to pickup another mic. Currently I have a sm57, but I was wanting something different to try out some different micing techniques.

The few that I want to try are close micing a small speaker with a large microphone, setting up a couple of amps around 1 mic, pointing and amp at a hard surface and recording the bounce back, and micing 1 amp with a few microphones. When I have read about these techniques large-diaphragm mics were used so I thought I should try one.

In the previous thread the Sennheiser 421, Sennheiser 906, Shure KSM27, Audix i5 were mentioned. Out of those suggested the KSM27 looks like the best choice for what I want to do, but I don't know as I am fairly new to the recording world. I'm not limiting myself to just those either.

I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on microphones as I'm just making demos. The KSM27 is about $300 and that is pushing the limit of what I feel comfortable spending on a mic to make bedroom demos with.

Suggestions? Opinions?

-Eric
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

If your "just making demos" a 57 is fine. If you want to start experimenting with different techniques the 57 can be used for more than just close micing a cab. The results might not be as good as with a better mic but you'll hear inherent differences to using different techniques.

3 bills is a chunk of change but hardly expensive for a mic that will give you years if not decades of service if cared for. I read lots of threads about folks wanting X but are only willing to pay Y. Well folks, you usually get what you pay for.

So I'd suggest taking the next step and paying a few extra bucks for a nice condenser or just work with what you've got.

Good luck.
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

SlyFoxx said:
If your "just making demos" a 57 is fine. If you want to start experimenting with different techniques the 57 can be used for more than just close micing a cab. The results might not be as good as with a better mic but you'll hear inherent differences to using different techniques.

3 bills is a chunk of change but hardly expensive for a mic that will give you years if not decades of service if cared for. I read lots of threads about folks wanting X but are only willing to pay Y. Well folks, you usually get what you pay for.

So I'd suggest taking the next step and paying a few extra bucks for a nice condenser or just work with what you've got.

Good luck.
Click to expand...


+1,000,000

If you're doing "bedroom demos", then the SM57 is more than sufficient and let's face it, if your budget is $300, you're not going to get much better sound than that mic for the price. Lots of bands have gotten great tones with theirs, so if you're not happy with it then you either need to change some EQing through your recording program, play with the position more, get a better mic preamp or add a condenser mic to the mix for better depth and punch (which will be more expensive than $300 in which you'd have to save up).
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

SlyFoxx said:
If your "just making demos" a 57 is fine. If you want to start experimenting with different techniques the 57 can be used for more than just close micing a cab. The results might not be as good as with a better mic but you'll hear inherent differences to using different techniques.

3 bills is a chunk of change but hardly expensive for a mic that will give you years if not decades of service if cared for. I read lots of threads about folks wanting X but are only willing to pay Y. Well folks, you usually get what you pay for.

So I'd suggest taking the next step and paying a few extra bucks for a nice condenser or just work with what you've got.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

I know that 300 isn't a lot to pay for a mic and I'm not expecting it to last forever.

The 57 is working fine, but the main reason for getting another mic was so I could try some double micing techniques and if I'm going to get another mic I thought I should get something different than what I already have.

What should I be spending on a mic for demos? $400, $500, $600+?

This is all just a learning experience for me and eventually I plan on replacing all of my gear when I have a solid foundation on how this stuff works and the means to do it.

Back to the original post would a Shure KSM27 work for what I am wanting to do? It seems to have gotten a favorable review...
http://mixonline.com/products/review/audio_shure_ksm/
 
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Re: Mic for recording demos

the_Chris said:
+1,000,000

If you're doing "bedroom demos", then the SM57 is more than sufficient and let's face it, if your budget is $300, you're not going to get much better sound than that mic for the price. Lots of bands have gotten great tones with theirs, so if you're not happy with it then you either need to change some EQing through your recording program, play with the position more, get a better mic preamp or add a condenser mic to the mix for better depth and punch (which will be more expensive than $300 in which you'd have to save up).
Click to expand...

I'm not unhappy with the sound I just would like to have a second mic. A lot of the recording techniques I want to try 2 mics are involved and it would be nice to have one so I can track more parts at once. After I get a sound dialed in for the guitar and record those parts I have to break down and switch over for vocals. It would be nice if I could track rhythm and lead parts, guitar and vocals, etc together.

I could go out and buy another 57, but I would just like to try something different.
 
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Re: Mic for recording demos

ericmeyer4 said:
I'm not unhappy with the sound I just would like to have a second mic. A lot of the recording techniques I want to try 2 mics are involved and it would be nice to have one so I can track more parts at once. After I get a sound dialed in for the guitar and record those parts I have to break down and switch over for vocals. It would be nice if I could track rhythm and lead parts, guitar and vocals, etc together.

I could go out and buy another 57, but I would just like to try something different.
Click to expand...

For what you're looking for, it sounds like you could use a good condenser mic. Unfortunately, condensers aren't cheap and you'll be looking at around $500 for a decent one.

I know where you're coming from and I'd love a cheap condenser too, but I've come to the realization that I'm going to wait to get a good one (an Audio Technica AT4050).
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

ericmeyer4 said:
What should I be spending on a mic for demos? $400, $500, $600+?

This is all just a learning experience for me and eventually I plan on replacing all of my gear when I have a solid foundation on how this stuff works and the means to do it.

Back to the original post would a Shure KSM27 work for what I am wanting to do? It seems to have gotten a favorable review...
http://mixonline.com/products/review/audio_shure_ksm/
Click to expand...

First of all... 'ya gotta stop reading "Mix" and other ragazine reviews.

Nothing solid there. Check out the forum at TapeOp.com to get some REAL thoughts & opinions. You should subscribe to the magazine too. Hell, it's free. Why not?

Second... Why buy things you need and even WANT to replace before you even buy them? If you purcahse a good microphone, and care for it... it'll last you a lifetime or two.

If you just want something to screw around with then spend $70 on any of the Chinese condensors.

Doesn't much matter which brand... they're all about the same. Sound mediocre, overload & distort easily... and break within a year or two if they even last THAT long.

But they'll sound "different" then a 57... and maybe that's all you want?!
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

J Moose said:
First of all... 'ya gotta stop reading "Mix" and other ragazine reviews.

Nothing solid there. Check out the forum at TapeOp.com to get some REAL thoughts & opinions. You should subscribe to the magazine too. Hell, it's free. Why not?

Second... Why buy things you need and even WANT to replace before you even buy them? If you purcahse a good microphone, and care for it... it'll last you a lifetime or two.

If you just want something to screw around with then spend $70 on any of the Chinese condensors.

Doesn't much matter which brand... they're all about the same. Sound mediocre, overload & distort easily... and break within a year or two if they even last THAT long.

But they'll sound "different" then a 57... and maybe that's all you want?!
Click to expand...

I don't read that magazine I started looking for info on the mics already suggested and that is one of the sources I found a review in. I will have to check out Tapeon and see what I can find out.

I want to replace stuff but probably wont get around doing it for several years or maybe I'll never be able to get the gear I would like to own. And what do it matter to you if I want to replace stuff? I don't know if I am going to stick with this or hell I maybe even give up guitar, but in the mean time I am trying to find something some what decent to learn on and have some fun with. I never specifically said I was going to replace the mic, I would like to replace my interface and get a computer to dedicate to just recording, but that is years off.

I never said I wanted some chinese POS just so it would be different. If I wanted to do that I would pull out the 2 radio shack mics laying the back of the closet. I would prefer to spend $300, but if I need to go higher I would.

Any specific models I should be looking at?

Has anyone had any experience with the Shure KSM27 or the Sennheiser MD 421? Both are looking promising from what I have read.

J Moose I appreciate the help, but in a lot of the post I have read you seem critical and condescending. Maybe its the way I am reading it, but whatever.

I don't know what is so hard about "hey you should probably want to spend more. but mic A, B, C would be a good start."
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

i still recommend the sennheiser 421. look on the used market, and you'll find one for quite a bit less than 300 bucks. i think i paid 150 for one of mine on ebay. just hunt around.

i'd steer clear of the KSM27. i own one of those too, and when A/B's against a nicer mic like a 414, the KSM sounds thin and nasaly and dull. the 421 won't give you exactly the same flavor as a nice condenser, but for just about any instrument mic'ing it will serve you well.
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

The Sennheiser 421 is a great mic and I love mine, but it's still a dynamic mic. If you want more variety or if you're looking to do vocals, acoustic guitar, and distant micing, I'd recommend a condenser. My two favorite condensers for cheap are a Rode NT-1 and an AKG C3000 (black case). The Rode is voiced similar to a Neumann U87 while the C3000 is a budget 414. Neither of these sound as good as the Neumann or 414, but you'd need a top notch signal chain to get the most out of those more expensive mics. Both the Rode and C3000 can be purchased used for $150-200.
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

I forgot to mention that you'll need a preamp / interface with phantom power if you're using a condenser mic. I don't know what you're using so this may not be an issue, but it is something to keep in mind.
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

ericmeyer4 said:
I never said I wanted some chinese POS just so it would be different. If I wanted to do that I would pull out the 2 radio shack mics laying the back of the closet. I would prefer to spend $300, but if I need to go higher I would.

Any specific models I should be looking at?

Has anyone had any experience with the Shure KSM27 or the Sennheiser MD 421? Both are looking promising from what I have read.

J Moose I appreciate the help, but in a lot of the post I have read you seem critical and condescending. Maybe its the way I am reading it, but whatever.

I don't know what is so hard about "hey you should probably want to spend more. but mic A, B, C would be a good start."
Click to expand...

Well... geez dude...

In your other thread you stated that 'ya wanted to spend $100 or so... I said there wasn't any anything really worth purchasing in that range that wasn't different from 57 & recommended some stuff... like the 421 & AT4033 and you said "they were too expensive..."

I could go on but it seems like any tidbit I throw out bounces off or hits resistance.

Why... oh why, do I even bother?

:smash:

Sorry if I come off as critical, but 'ya know... I've been paying my bills for over a decade as a music producer & audio engineer. I get paid to be critical of things like microphone choice & listening.

Best of luck with 'yer endevours.
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

Muttonchopsrule and dystrust thank you very much for that!

SizzleSale.com said:
Throw a blanket over it
Click to expand...
:?:

J Moose said:
Well... geez dude...

In your other thread you stated that 'ya wanted to spend $100 or so... I said there wasn't any anything really worth purchasing in that range that wasn't different from 57 & recommended some stuff... like the 421 & AT4033 and you said "they were too expensive..."

I could go on but it seems like any tidbit I throw out bounces off or hits resistance.

Why... oh why, do I even bother?

:smash:

Sorry if I come off as critical, but 'ya know... I've been paying my bills for over a decade as a music producer & audio engineer. I get paid to be critical of things like microphone choice & listening.

Best of luck with 'yer endevours.
Click to expand...

I thought it over, used suggestions from the one, and raised my base price. I specifically asked about 4 or 5 of the mics previously suggested (some of which were ones you suggested.) I made a new thread so I could get away from the last one because I could see that I wasn't going to get any where positive with it and figured it would be easier to start fresh.

I don't know where the resitance was coming from in this thread. I was trying to explain my experience level, what I was wanting to do, and why I have hesitence in spending a lot of money, BUT I still asked at what price range and models I should be looking at.

If you didn't want to take the time why even post? Plus your post wasn't even helpful. You said to ignore a magazine (how do I even know that it isn't a reliable source? Is it because YOU said it wasn't? That is what you are basically implying) Then you told me to get two made in china mics. So if you have nothing constructive to add, please don't bother.

Instead of posting "Oh why do I even bother?" bs post, you could have taken the time and explained a little about some of the mics I was asking about or something I havn't thought of yet. "The 421 is good at this and this, but lacks in this.The ... is good at or bla bla etc etc." If you have the experience and are willing to take the time to make a post, why not try to make it a helpful one? If you think you are not going to be listened too just ignore the thread. Of the few things you have posted in this thread so far nothing has added to it in a positive way.


Edit: The_Chris I will have to look into that mic aswell. Thanks for that.
 
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Re: Mic for recording demos

guitfiddle said:
+1 AKG C-3000
Here's a used one for $200
http://cgi.ebay.com/AKG-C3000-B-Con...ryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or, brand new for $300
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-AKG-C-3000-...oryZ3278QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...

Both of those are the newer, silver C3000B which sound different than the older, black case C3000. They're both good mics, but the older one has much more detail and clarity in the highs. I managed to find this one one on ebay, but I'm looking for another so you may have to fight me for it. :sword:

http://cgi.ebay.com/AKG-C3000-Condenser-Microphone-Low-Imp_W0QQitemZ230194486425QQihZ013QQcategoryZ41468QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

On the other hand I also have a C3000B that I'd be willing to part with. Let me know if you'd be interested.
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

It will be a while before I have enough to spend on a mic. I'll have to keep checking eBay, although I do have some reservations about used mics. Seems like a bit of a health hazard, but if the price was right I could look past that I guess. lol

dystrust shoot me a pm about it and we'll see where it goes.
 
Re: Mic for recording demos

ericmeyer4 said:
Edit: The_Chris I will have to look into that mic aswell. Thanks for that.
Click to expand...

No problem, you're welcome!

The thing with recording setups is that they're so confusing. There are so many variables and equipment is expensive. I'm going into it as blindly as you are buddy, so all I can say is to do as much research as you can and if you have the chance to try anything before buying do so :)

I honestly started up a thread over at TGP regarding a 3k budget setup and most folks agreed that the AT4050 was a very versatile, good condenser mic for the money, that's why I mentioned it. I'm going to be taking the plunge in a month or so after bills/shopping are all over.
 
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