Michael schenker tone question

[Ed Hunter]

I am a huge MS fan and wanted to ask if anyone knows if the wha set to a specific point is responsible for the tone i like?
Go to 1:23 that note there and the solo at 2:31? there is a certain fat/throaty midrange he is getting that is beyond what the T-top can get? The Duncan demon gets real close but that mid tone filter is missing? Is there a cap or whatever i can use to lock that notched tone in, i dont want a wha pedal in my signal chain

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

His MSG sound is from a wah pedal that is always on. There are a few pedal manufacturers who make a no treadle wah. Instead of a treadle it has a knob and an on/off switch so it can be preset and used as a solo boost. You can also get close with an EQ or a notch filter.

His Dean pickup sounds close but I still think he is using a wah.

 

[Blackie13]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

He used a SH-5,59 and jcm 800 2205...
He didn't use wah all the time...
In some tours(MSG) he used just a chorus-delay...

http://www.rbaraki.com/misc.htm

 

[JeffB]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

he didn't start using Duncan customs until close to the 1990 mark.

At the time of Cry for Nations it was his hamer re-built original Gibson medallion V with T tops. He also at this time acquired the small block V and had it repainted the same way. Likely T tops or Shaws.

Amp of choice at this time were his trusty 1987s modded by Paul Rivera. The first 2 albums were recorded before the 2205 was even introduced. He was using the 2205 in tandem with the Rivera mods up into the late 1980s.

And of course his crybaby wah. However there is doubling alot of parts note for note on this album, and then the two tracks are slightly off- essentially a manual chorus effect. EDIT- Live he uses a very loud delay for a fast slapback effect to maintain that thickness.

In the late 80s he retired the medallion V because it was no longer stable after all the neck/headstock repairs- the small block took over as #1 and had a Schaller pickup in it for a couple years- then he moved onto the SH5.

The DiMarzio Schenker pickups are closer to the SH5 sound without all the brightness and much meatier high strings. No muddy low mids either. Kinda like a more evenly EQ'd Super Distortion.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

The dimarzio schenker? Which one is that. I know the dean schenker.are they similar/the Same/close?

 

[JeffB]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

The dimarzio schenker? Which one is that. I know the dean schenker.are they similar/the Same/close?

For a very brief time- Larry was building the Schenker pickups that came in Dean Guitars. I had a set in my USA TCML.

Then when Dean started building pups in house, they changed the name to "lights out", and built very similarily to the DiMarzios which were discontinued.

At the time I was ecastatic that I accidentally got a set of Schenkers -the guitar was supposed to come with a JB/59 but Dean had run out of all black JBs or something, and they shipped it with Schenkers to get the guitar out to Carlino- I have a feeling that barney was a special order for someone else, and they for whatever reason did not take it. Later on I put a JB/59 in it. It sounded completely awful- Schenkers went back in within 3 days.

In retrospect think the Schenkers sound very cool, but they are not to my personal taste- too..."neutral"...just not alot of character going on.

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

I had an issue of guitar world from the time when the first McCaully Schenker album came out 1989/1990. He talked about his choice of gear and how his Fernandes V had been routed to test pickups. He said he recorded each pickup and then listened to them without knowing which pickups he was listening to. He said his favorite were Schaller's. Although he didn't identify which models he liked. I remember he also said he used Gallien Kruger amps for that record.

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

Mike playing LP cool!

 

[JeffB]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

I had an issue of guitar world from the time when the first McCaully Schenker album came out 1989/1990. He talked about his choice of gear and how his Fernandes V had been routed to test pickups. He said he recorded each pickup and then listened to them without knowing which pickups he was listening to. He said his favorite were Schaller's. Although he didn't identify which models he liked. I remember he also said he used Gallien Kruger amps for that record.

Album was released in 1987 and still have my original copy- that article was from this issue of GW

You can hear him on the GK here

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

Album was released in 1987 and still have my original copy- that article was from this issue of GW

You can hear him on the GK here

That's the one.

 

[JeffB]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

Mike playing LP cool!

Just turned 16 (edit) when he recorded this album. Joined UFO by the time he was 17, and at the top of his game by the time he was 25. Pretty unusual to to be so successful (and matured as a player) by the time you are 20 yo.

 

[orpheo]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

For a very brief time- Larry was building the Schenker pickups that came in Dean Guitars. I had a set in my USA TCML.

Then when Dean started building pups in house, they changed the name to "lights out", and built very similarily to the DiMarzios which were discontinued.

At the time I was ecastatic that I accidentally got a set of Schenkers -the guitar was supposed to come with a JB/59 but Dean had run out of all black JBs or something, and they shipped it with Schenkers to get the guitar out to Carlino- I have a feeling that barney was a special order for someone else, and they for whatever reason did not take it. Later on I put a JB/59 in it. It sounded completely awful- Schenkers went back in within 3 days.

In retrospect think the Schenkers sound very cool, but they are not to my personal taste- too..."neutral"...just not alot of character going on.

Thanks for this info. I really love the dean schenker bridgepickup (in a les paul). Seems to be a crossbreed.beteren a jb and superdistortion. The dimarzioversion is similar?
What neckpickup would you use in conjunction with the schenker-bridge? The schenker-neck is too weak, IMHO, to be paired with the bridge pickup.especially if you want fatty leads.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

You can talk pickups and caps and whatever else you want to talk but you need a wah pedal to get that tone, plain and simple.

It doesn't have to be a traditional wah pedal...there are a number of small box, set it and forget it true bypass pedals out there now that will give oyu that pre set wah tone you are asking about but whatever style you go with you need a wah pedal.

I can nail those types of tones with a plain old T Top/Pat # pickup and my old Jen built Crybaby...

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

You can talk pickups and caps and whatever else you want to talk but you need a wah pedal to get that tone, plain and simple.

It doesn't have to be a traditional wah pedal...there are a number of small box, set it and forget it true bypass pedals out there now that will give oyu that pre set wah tone you are asking about but whatever style you go with you need a wah pedal.

I can nail those types of tones with a plain old T Top/Pat # pickup and my old Jen built Crybaby...

What is the best sub for a T-top? a 490 or a 59N with a rough cast A5 mag? I can afford a T-top right now so i need a sub that has that EQ to it.

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

He talked about his choice of gear and how his Fernandes V had been routed to test pickups. He said he recorded each pickup and then listened to them without knowing which pickups he was listening to. He said his favorite were Schaller's. Although he didn't identify which models he liked. .

I think he was refering to the golden 50's which is their best PAF copy

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

What is the best sub for a T-top? a 490 or a 59N with a rough cast A5 mag? I can afford a T-top right now so i need a sub that has that EQ to it.

PM sent

 

[JeffB]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

I can nail those types of tones with a plain old T Top/Pat # pickup and my old Jen built Crybaby...

And the right amp & speakers.

The biggest thing is getting a GOOD wah pedal. Mikey himself gave up on using wahs for several years cos his old faithful crapped out, and there were no old parts available at the time to recondition it. Nowadays we have all kinds of vintage spec parts available.

I've been able to get very close to most of Michael's tones over the years - as much as possible without being him and not having his hands and skill (and for many years I really did try!, kinda like some people with EVH). My 1987x would nail his UFO stuff with a good wah pedal. With the right goose it would do the mid to late 80s tones (assault attack, BTD, RWND, etc) Any 800 digital model and modelled greenbacks will do those mid to late 80s tones as well.

The one that has always evaded me was that damned tone on One Night at Budokan- which happens to be THE best tone he ever got in the MSG days AFAIC, and that album was the whole reason I started playing guitar. The tone is in your face, thick, warm, crunchy, round, and bitey all at the same time with just a little bit of (good) fizz. Even other concerts of the time period sound nothing like that- they are much brighter, trebly, and crunchier. Perhaps recording and dynamics. IDK. But I love how that concert sounds like its in your room, and he can go from really warm jazz tones to this screaming biting lead tone with that old wah of his.



Orpheo- sticking with DiMarzios, you might try an Air Norton? I don't really care for it, but the output should be a bit higher but still have a fairly similar tone to the Schenker neck.

As for a T top sub- there are plenty of custom winders out there doing T-top style pups these days (do a yootoob search). Duncan really doesn't have anything (stock) that sounds like a T top at all. A 59n or JazzB with a A3/4 mag might get ya there. The 59 is too stiff, hot, and doesn't have the midrange character of a T top.

 

[Ed Hunter]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

As for a T top sub- there are plenty of custom winders out there doing T-top style pups these days (do a yootoob search). Duncan really doesn't have anything (stock) that sounds like a T top at all. A 59n or JazzB with a A3/4 mag might get ya there. The 59 is too stiff, hot, and doesn't have the midrange character of a T top.

Yeah jeff from www.highorderpickups.com sent me a email about his T-top wind for $70. might give it a go? a little shy on funds till i sell my PGb so it will have to wait till then

 

[JeffB]

Re: Michael schenker tone question

Yeah jeff from www.highorderpickups.com sent me a email about his T-top wind for $70. might give it a go? a little shy on funds till i sell my PGb so it will have to wait till then

I've always like the HO pup clips. A couple of our better forum players here (Wattage, and Kevlar3000) have used them and posted some clips over the years too- always sounded great. I wouldn't hesitate to try a set. There is also: (I'd love to have a set of this guys Shaw copies)

Also I suspect Seymour could wind ya some killer ones in the custom shop for the right $