Middle position sounds too much like neck position…

[Bowtomecha]

One thing I dislike about HH guitars is that the middle toggle position with both humbuckers on sounds too much like the neck humbucker alone. The neck always dominates over the bridge. In many cases it’s not a unique tone of its own, just a version of the overall neck tone. Has anybody done anything to change this?

I know there’s series wiring with one coil from each humbucker, parallel wiring with one coil from each humbucker, and neck and bridge humbuckers out of phase. But are there other ways to give it a distinct tone? It’s probably easiest to have one pickup in series and the other in parallel to achieve this. I’ve often wondered about doing something like the neck humbucker being a woofer and the bridge a tweeter, as if a crossover was being used.

 

[Chistopher]

It just depends on how the pickups sound on their own and how lucky you get setting the heights. If you can't get a good enough middle sound to where you would ever use it, it may be worth it to swap the phase of the neck pickup. It's better to have an out of phase middle position that you use every once in a while then to have a middle position that's indistinguishable from the neck pickup

 

[Artie]

I always like the stud bridge coil, in series with the neck screw coil. (If the switch allows it.) That way, I can "walk" the humbucker from the neck to the bridge position. I like that the difference is subtle.

P.S. Depending on the guitar and pickups, I also like that same combo in parallel, for that quasi-Strat quack.

 

[Mincer]

One thing to check is that both pickups are actually on in the middle position.

 

[56LPC]

On my HH guitars I greatly prefer having separate volumes. I set both pickups to be equal for individual output (adjusting height), and when I use both I always turn the neck pickup down to 8. It gives me a unique middle position that I use a fair amount.

My recent discovery is that I just did the magnet flip on one guitar so my middle position is out of phase. Now I have a very honky OOP sound when both volumes are full up, and a middle tone similar to my regular one when I drop the neck volume to 8 as I typically do.

That's my experience, at least.

- Douglas C.

 

[Spaghetti Bolo]

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-pickup-lounge/323658-new-sound-jb-jazz-middle-position

I used a trimpot and dialed in maximum cluck.

 

[ehdwuld]

My JB bridge sounds vastly brighter than the JAZZ neck

you may have the neck too high or the bridge too low

Thus making one dominate the other

I would set the bridge height where it sounds best
For the JB, it's 1/8 inch (3mm) under the strings

Then raise or lower the neck to balance volume
Between the two

Then try the middle again

Weird wiring is no possible with a toggle
A three positions blade may let you but
You may need a five way to accomplish the od middle you desire

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I find middle position usually sounds better with the neck pickup set low, farther from the strings.
If you have a blade switch, autosplit is a very good option too.

 

[beaubrummels]

Sounds like your pickups are not set to the right heights to balance output.

 

[hamerfan]

‚you may have the neck too high or the bridge too low‘ …. or both

 

[Artie]

I used a trimpot and dialed in maximum cluck.

Cool idea. I'll have to try that.

 

[jeremy]

i use the middle position of my hh guitars a fair amount. most of my hh guitars have paf types in both positions, but my tele has a sns neck and jb, the middle always sounds different than the other two positions. if you play with a lot of gain, you may notice less of a difference between the neck and middle positions.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I'm long accustomed to tuning the middle position on single-volume guitars by pickup height.
Always did it for PRSi (my primary go-to for most of the last four decades) as well as Fenders & derivatives like superStrats..

That's what made the DGT such a game changer for me. Great to have separate volumes, and they're placed for convenience.
Middle position became a spectrum again, rather than just one sound. I love that.
But I'm not giving up any of my longtime favorites.

Even on Gibsons and the DGT, despite having separate volume controls I prefer setting my neck pickups pretty low.

 

[Mincer]

I have to say that the middle position on my guitars is vastly different than either pickup alone.

 

[Juanhanglo]

One thing I dislike about HH guitars is that the middle toggle position with both humbuckers on sounds too much like the neck humbucker alone. The neck always dominates over the bridge. In many cases it’s not a unique tone of its own, just a version of the overall neck tone. Has anybody done anything to change this?

I know there’s series wiring with one coil from each humbucker, parallel wiring with one coil from each humbucker, and neck and bridge humbuckers out of phase. But are there other ways to give it a distinct tone? It’s probably easiest to have one pickup in series and the other in parallel to achieve this. I’ve often wondered about doing something like the neck humbucker being a woofer and the bridge a tweeter, as if a crossover was being used.

I have neck bucker and bridge single in parallel on some of my guitars. It depends on the pickups though. Breeds are a good example. 10k neck/16k bridge. I cut the bridge so it's balances better at 10k/8k.

going the other way with the lower resistance pickup cut is a bit more drastic.

 

[Hiwatts and Gibsons]

One thing I dislike about HH guitars is that the middle toggle position with both humbuckers on sounds too much like the neck humbucker alone. The neck always dominates over the bridge. In many cases it’s not a unique tone of its own, just a version of the overall neck tone. Has anybody done anything to change this?

I know there’s series wiring with one coil from each humbucker, parallel wiring with one coil from each humbucker, and neck and bridge humbuckers out of phase. But are there other ways to give it a distinct tone? It’s probably easiest to have one pickup in series and the other in parallel to achieve this. I’ve often wondered about doing something like the neck humbucker being a woofer and the bridge a tweeter, as if a crossover was being used.

This is exactly what I love most about the standard Gibson 2+2 vol and tone controls. All I have to do is back off the volume on the neck pickup some. That can't be done with a single volume and tone control.

Maybe look into picking up a 500K concentric volume pot? If you use the middle a lot, or tend to play with your bridge volume all the way up, then wire it so that the neck pickup is tied to the top half of the concentric pot.

Your issue is exactly why I generally play with my neck volume around 6, and bridge volume at 8. This way I have enough room to play with adding or subtracting more of either into the mix, and the middle setting sounds distinctly different from the neck pickup.

 

[Hiwatts and Gibsons]

On my HH guitars I greatly prefer having separate volumes. I set both pickups to be equal for individual output (adjusting height), and when I use both I always turn the neck pickup down to 8. It gives me a unique middle position that I use a fair amount.

My recent discovery is that I just did the magnet flip on one guitar so my middle position is out of phase. Now I have a very honky OOP sound when both volumes are full up, and a middle tone similar to my regular one when I drop the neck volume to 8 as I typically do.

That's my experience, at least.

- Douglas C.

Me too.

 

[GuitarDoc]

The definitive solution has been given...either lower your neck pup or raise the bridge pup.