midi drums question (logic and levels)

[DankStar]

So for a new song I'm taking a more analytical look at the midi drums - specifically the individual notes.

In logic, midi notes are colored per their value (level) - with low to high being green, yellow, amber, red.

It would seem that green (value of mid/high 60s) is often too low and red (value of 115+) is often too loud/strong in the mix.

This has me wondering - has anyone used logic for rock/metal (not extreme metal, but with dynamics) midi drums and set up low/high limits, knowing that over and under certain values just won't work well in a mix?

If not, I'm basically doing that. Just wondered if anyone already has such limits established. I know a lot is based on using my ears, but I would think even pro engineers would use some type of range between which they would want their levels to exist.

For example, some producers like to have the bass drum hits pretty much all uniform - I think that's a bit extreme and want to hear a bit of variation. Just not mega-variation where things are jumping out and disappearing a lot.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: midi drums question (logic and levels)

You shouldn't let your variation slip too far into crazy or it'll sound like your drummer sucks. Kicks and snares seldom diverge from the top 90% of their velocity, if you think about drummers and how they do their thing. Cymbals need a lot of attention though. If the drums are the conversation, the cymbals are the inflection (to me). Be sure to truck your drum tracks into an audio track and apply compression and limiting to them too.

I'm currently trying to just make an end-run around the whole act of dragging rectangles around a piano roll by learning drums

Isn't there a humanize function in Logic? I would assume there was...

 

[mamm]

Re: midi drums question (logic and levels)

The best drum samples try to mimic what happens with a real drum: if you bang a real drum harder, what you get is not just more volume, but a different sound altogether (more resonance, more body, more "compression", whatever). Kind of a volume pot in a guitar: you don't change just the volume; you change the tone.

Maybe you are using simple samples - samples that always use the same sound for a note, and just change the volume of the hits? That would get you a VERY big variation in volume and could explain the excessive dynamic. A snare hit with velocity = 120 shouldn't simply sound 3 times louder than a snare with v = 40; that's not realistic. The sound has to change.

That said, even for good, responsive samples, a range of 10 or 20, hovering around 100 (say, velocities between 90 and 110) should be plenty for kick/snare of a typical rock/metal song - since those genres are not exactly known for their dynamic drum sounds... Try maybe 90-100 in the verses, 100-110 in the choruses for starters.

 

[DankStar]

Re: midi drums question (logic and levels)

Thanks dudes.

There's a lot of variables - the pads are velocity sensitive, plus slate does take into account different tones when hit harder of softer, and it's got some type of anti-machine gun effect.

The main reasons there's different volumes is because some parts I'll get all into and hit too hard, or I'll miss the pad a bit and hit too soft. I'm not a drummer so there's lots of flubs I need to fix after the fact.

I see what could be an issue though if I keep a hard hit but turn the volume on it down, that's not really accurate to real drums. I'll need to watch that.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: midi drums question (logic and levels)

Oh okay, you're using a pad and stuff? Well then don't worry so much; be true to your own playing! If its got an anti machine gun effect, you're probably golden. Put up dem clips!

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: midi drums question (logic and levels)

The drum sounds in Logic X are constructed from layered samples.

For programming purposes, you need to deduce the velocity values at which successive sample layers are blended into the sound mix. The alternatives are to either create your own drum kits from scratch or select a more appropriate Logic Drummer "personality" and kit for Hard Rock/Metal.

Be sure to truck your drum tracks into an audio track and apply compression and limiting to them

+1 For greater consistency of drum sound levels, apply compression and/or limiting in the instrument track strip.

Isn't there a humanize function in Logic?

There is but it works by fine timing and velocity randomisation. Spectrasonics Stylus RMX goes much, much further in this department.

 

[DankStar]

Re: midi drums question (logic and levels)

Funk - it's not logic drum sounds, it's slate. Logic (express) is just the daw/midi editor in this case.

I would like logic x though.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: midi drums question (logic and levels)

Slate drums are VERY expressive across their velocity range. When using Slate I typically set it to randomise at +/- 10% of the target velocity.

 

[DankStar]

Re: midi drums question (logic and levels)

Slate drums are VERY expressive across their velocity range. When using Slate I typically set it to randomise at +/- 10% of the target velocity.

oh, I didn't know I could set that. I better read the manual!!