Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

SabbathFan0220

SabbathFan0220

New member
This is for an LP I've been putting off wiring for a while, but it's almost done. Hermetico helped me with this a while back, but I'm still confused.

First, the mini toggles...I want them to split to the neck coil of the humbucker when up, full humbucker in the middle position, and bridge coil when down. I was under the impression that you split to screws when you short the red/white to black. If this is correct, are my mini toggles wired upside down? Doesn't the switch in the up position connect the bottom 2 lugs?

Also, the rotary switch. I've left the leads from the 3 humbuckers and 2 tone knobs detached next to switch in the diagram. I just don't know what goes where. Everything is labeled with what I want its function to be. I understand the way the rotary switch works (connects all the "1" lugs in the "1" position) but I don't understand the "0" lugs. Can someone briefly explain?

Thanks guys for helping me out yet again.

http://s416.photobucket.com/albums/pp249/SabbathFan0220/?action=view&current=LPCustomWiringWiredA4b.jpg
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Correct: the handle in the up position means the bottom contacts are active.

Correct: R+W to Ground means Screw coil active.


Looking at the diagram, your Neck mini toggle is wired the reverse of your Middle and Bridge switches.

If those two are working fine (Up=Neckward coil), then simply loosen the nut of the Neck pickup switch and spin it around.


As for the rotary, the 0 lugs are the Commons. Connect these 2 together to join 2 of the 4 poles together (2 poles on each wafer - connect an inner 0 from the top wafer to an outer 0 on the bottom wafer to join the top and bottom wafers, or connect the 2 0s on the top wafer (furthest from the actual knob) to join the two poles on that wafer.


However, you can connect your pickup blacks to 3 of these 0s instead, and then wire whatever combinations you want from the rotary to the wafer with the remaining 0, which would then go to the Output.
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Thanks for the quick reply, DrNewcenstein

The neck mini toggle is wired the reverse of the middle and bridge toggles intentionally, since the screws on the neck pickup face the neck and the screws on the middle and bridge pickups face the bridge. I'm wondering whether all 3 are wired upside down (I can't test it, since I'm not done wiring it yet). If connecting R+W to Black splits to screws, and R+W to Green to slugs, then I think all 3 switches are upside down. But the way I have it here is the way Hermetico did it here...

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?p=2026201

I'm still a little confused about the common (0) lugs... What do they connect to? There are only two common lugs, even though it is a 4-pole switch.

Thanks for the help... I've never wired anything I didn't already have a diagram for.
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Personal preference. I prefer my switches to move in the same direction regardless of what they're doing electrically.

As for the rotary:
There are 4 common lugs - look at the diagram again - the 0s are all in a line from top to bottom.

The Common lugs connect to the pickup Black wires (unless the middle is reverse-phased, then you'd want the Green wire there and the Black+Bare to Ground, unless you've already got all that taken care of with a Phase switch).

The Common lugs themselves are connected to all 6 contact points for each Pole. 4 Poles, 4 Commons, 4 Groups of 6 contact points.
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Now that you mention it, it may make more sense to wire all three mini toggles the same, that way I don't have to remember which way the pickups are facing in order to use the switches in conjunction with one another.

Wow, I totally missed those other two commons. With 28 lugs back there I skipped a couple. Now this is the part that's stumping me...if the commons connect to all 6 positions, won't any pickup that's attached to a common be active in all 6 positions?
I'm not connecting any pickups to the rotary switch directly, each one is going through a mini toggle first. The only thing going into the rotary switch will be the hot signal from each mini toggle (see diagram).
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

SabbathFan0220 said:
Now this is the part that's stumping me...if the commons connect to all 6 positions, won't any pickup that's attached to a common be active in all 6 positions?
Click to expand...


Yes and No.
Because you've only got one of the 4 poles actually going to the pots, whatever you connect to the tabs associated with that one pole will be hot in that tab's position.

With each pickup going to a separate pole (1, 2, and 3), you can connect any position tab from those groups to any tab in the 4th group and that pickup will only be active on that switch position.


First, you decide which pole gets which function. It doesn't matter which one you choose, so let's say the wafer closest to the knob (the Top wafer) contains groups 1 and 3, with Group 1 (Bridge) at the bottom of the diagram you have (since it's closest to the bridge pickup), with Group 3 (Neck) being at the top of the diagram.

The bottom wafer will contain Groups 2 and 4, and Group 2 (Middle) will be at the top of the diagram, leaving the remaining common tab Group 4 (Output).

So, connect all the pickup leads from the mini toggles where they need to go, and connect the 4th common to the tone pot.

Now, say you wanted switch position 1 to be Bridge only; you'd connect the tab marked 1 in the Bridge's Group to the tab marked 1 in the Output Group.

Now let's say you want position 2 to be Bridge + Middle.
Connect the #2 tab from Middle Group AND the #2 tab from Bridge Group to Output Group's #2 tab.

3h-rotary6.jpg


Continue along until you've got all the wiring options you want.

Doing it this way, you don't have multiple wires soldered onto one tab (which can get messy).


SabbathFan0220 said:
Just to clarify about the mini toggle direction, in this diagram...

http://s416.photobucket.com/albums/pp249/SabbathFan0220/?action=view&current=LPCustomWiringWiredA3b.jpg

The mini toggles here are...
Up: Stud coil only
Middle: Full humbucker
Down: Screw coil only

Correct?
Click to expand...

Depends on which "Up" you mean - switch handle Up or active contacts?

Looking at the diagram, we see the back of the switch (terminals). From that perspective "Up" indicates the Upper terminal is connected to the Middle terminal, which means the switch handle is actually pointed down.


That said, I've never wired a 3-way mini for that, so I can't say for sure what will do what. I know that to split to Screw coil (i.e. bridge screw coil active), the R+W have to be grounded, so in that case if the switch handle were pointed upwards, the R+W would be connected to the Green+Bare and thus Grounded.
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Thanks so much DrNewcenstein.

Two things though...my wiring has more than one tone control, so the rotary switch would need more than one output. I think this might be it...

http://s416.photobucket.com/albums/pp249/SabbathFan0220/?action=view&current=LPCustomWiringWiredA7J.jpg


Also, ArtieToo and Robert S. say that R+W to Black (not Green) leaves the screw coil active, here...

https://secure.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146522


Oh, and by "Up" I meant switch pointed up. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Last edited:
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

You might be able to wire the Middle pickup to the Tone knob first, then run out of the Tone to the rotary. However, you'll end up with double-tone - with one Tone knob at 0, it can be further muffled by putting the other on 0, but only for that pickup.

You might be able to jump each Tone knob onto their associated Groups (M and B+N), and run the rotary output to the Volume.


As for the splitting: If Black is wired to the Hot output (main switch or otherwise headed out the jack), then R+W has to be shunted to Ground in order for the screw coil to be the only active coil (at least in terms of the Bridge pickup).

Since Green+Bare are going to Ground, matching R+W to Green+Bare means R+W are going to Ground, and therefore the screw coil is active.

If Black+Bare are going to Ground, and Green is the Hot, then yes, in that case, matching R+W to Black(+Bare) means the screw coil is active.


[edit]
Didn't see your revised diagram until after I posted.

Looks like that'll work for the rotary switching.
 
Last edited:
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Thanks so much DrNewcenstein. I really appreciate it. If that switching looks right, I'm gonna get soldering. Should I be concerned about grounding a rotary switch?
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Nope. It's just like a 5-way or any other switch and doesn't need a ground. You can connect a ground wire to certain points to do auto-splitting, but since you've already got that covered by the 3 minis, there's no need.
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Ok, so I wired it up according to the last diagram I posted, here...

http://s416.photobucket.com/albums/pp249/SabbathFan0220/?action=view&current=LPCustomWiringWiredA7J.jpg

...and all the switching works the way it should, but the tone pots do not. Both tone pots are active in all 6 pickup positions. The way the pots are attached to the rotary switch commons is wrong, because both tone pots are influencing all the pickups.

Anybody see where I went wrong?
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

I don't know if it's the commons or if it's the Volume pot input.

Since both Tones meet up at the same point on the Volume pot, their signals are crossed, making the separation at the switch pointless.


It could be that the commons on the bottom wafer are somhow internally linked to the commons on either side of the top wafer. In that event, move the Bridge and Middle pickups to the same pair of commons - one on the top wafer, one on the bottom wafer. You'll also have to move the Tone control for those pickups to those commons.


(In the diagram, move the Middle pickup from the "green" group to the "blue" group (at the bottom of the diagram) and move that Tone control connection to the "blue" common).
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

I think you're right about the crossed paths to the volume pot. That was stupid. I think this fixes the problem...

http://s416.photobucket.com/albums/pp249/SabbathFan0220/?action=view&current=LPCustomWiringWiredA8J.jpg

I attached the tone pots directly to the pickup leads coming from the toggles, and attached the volume pot to all the rotary commons. Even if the commons met somewhere in the switch like you suggested, this should work either way. I colored the volume pot connections purple and the final lead red. I also just got a bunch of small wires with alligator clips to test this sort of thing before I break out the soldering iron...

Thanks again DrNewcenstein.
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Alligator clips/jumper leads are my best friend in the world! Everyone should have at least a dozen of them IMO for testing out wiring schemes before touching the soldering iron.

We could still be using lead-based solder if everyone had been using clips instead of wasting solder on bad connections :lol:
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

I just came back to this project after leaving it for a while (and by leaving it I mean giving up on it). In my last effort...

http://s416.photobucket.com/albums/pp249/SabbathFan0220/?action=view&current=LPCustomWiringWiredA8J.jpg

...the middle and bridge pickups were always active together. I couldn't use either one alone. I see now that the connection to the mutual tone pot permanently connects the two. So, needless to say, I'm out of ideas. Anybody out there want to take a crack at this for me?

Thanks guys.
 
Re: Mini Toggles/Rotary Switch Wiring Help

Thanks for all the help, Hermetico. If I link the tone pots to the last wafer though, then any position where both pots are active, the tone paths will cross again. In positions 2, 4, and 6, both pots will be attached there, thus joining the two in every position. I think this might be the only way to do it without crossing paths...

http://s416.photobucket.com/albums/pp249/SabbathFan0220/?action=view&current=LPCustomWiringWiredA10J.jpg

Does that look right?
 
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