Mixing guitar sound

Icarusfire

Icarusfire

New member
A beginner recording question:

Some times when I record my electric guitar over a backing track (or some drums, bass and keyboards) While the tracks are individually and musically good(same key and tempo) I feel like "sound" of the guitar just don't "belong" to the mix.

Its hard to describe.. it sounds like a recording/mixing issue to me..as if the guitar sound should be "melted" into the mix but not sound like a separete "thing" from the rest of the track. Maybe there should be a technical term in recording jargon that describes this but I dont know it.

if all this make any sense to you let me know what you think

Signal chain: Guitar -> Marshall amp with line out -> audo interface -> Mac with Logic ProX
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

Icarusfire said:
A beginner recording question:

Some times when I record my electric guitar over a backing track (or some drums, bass and keyboards) While the tracks are individually and musically good(same key and tempo) I feel like "sound" of the guitar just don't "belong" to the mix.

Its hard to describe.. it sounds like a recording/mixing issue to me..as if the guitar sound should be "melted" into the mix but not sound like a separete "thing" from the rest of the track. Maybe there should be a technical term in recording jargon that describes this but I dont know it.

if all this make any sense to you let me know what you think

Signal chain: Guitar -> Marshall amp with line out -> audo interface -> Mac with Logic ProX
Click to expand...

Give us a soundclip and we'll guide you! Cheers!
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

You nailed it on your topic title. Layering tracks on top of one another is not mixing. Mixing takes years of hard work and experimentation to master.

Welcome to your new lifetime obsession! :)
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

In multi-track recording, the illusion that all of the instruments are playing collectively is achieved by setting them all in the same artificial space. This is achieved by feeding appropriate proportions of all the instruments to the same reverberation signal processor.

In the case of electric guitar overdubs, a sound that seems fabulous on its own may not necessarily sit in a full band setting. Frequencies in the guitar sound will very probably clash with those of the keyboard part. You may need to get creative with the individual track EQ to clarify the overall sound.
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

Funkfingers said:
In multi-track recording, the illusion that all of the instruments are playing collectively is achieved by setting them all in the same artificial space. This is achieved by feeding appropriate proportions of all the instruments to the same reverberation signal processor.
Click to expand...

I was think about that, when you r watching a movie 2 guys are talking, and their voices are dubbed in different environments (one in toilet one in church) It will sound weird

But on the other hand if there are zero reverb on all tracks then in theory there should be no problem, bu there is..

So thats an EQ problem? but nothing clashes with nothing just they dont belong together
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

Clips, man, we need clips! ;)


Sent from my iPad using a bunch of electrons, copper, and probably some fiber optical cable
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

It sounds like there is a TON of reverb on the guitar tracks. It's pushing the guitar way back.

What you're essentially asking about is a general rule for EQing instruments so they can sound cohesive together.

Several things to mention:
1) it is normally better to cut away unwanted frequencies rather than to boost the ones you do want. By cutting the unwanted freq's, it leaves behind the desirable freq's, without making the signal of the track too high and risking clipping.

2) Every kind of instrument has it's own "strong spots" that make that instrument sound like itself. Almost every instrument also produces a lot of other frequencies when mic'd, which, when put together with a bunch of other instruments, can overlap, and create a confused, unfocused sounding mix. You can avoid this by EQing each instrument so that it leaves space for the frequencies produced by other instruments.

3) when you have more than one of the same kind of instrument, if they are playing parts that differ significantly in terms of pitch, you can use the EQ to make them sound distinct, but you can also pan them in opposite directions to create more spread and separate them.

4) There are no hard and fast rules for how to EQ a mix, because a lot of it depends on the kinds of tones you are going for with all the instruments and which frequencies need emphasis relative to each instrument.

5) It is normally better to create a good sounding dry mix (ie no effects at all) first, and then add effects accordingly.

6) You could spend years learning about the technical nitty gritty of the above points, but you should read up a little on how to mix a full rock or blues band (Depending on the kinda music you're working on). And then start experimenting. Practice makes....well, not perfect, but better, at any rate.
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

^^Good Points^^

When it comes to reverb, one professional I talked to said "Use just enough that you can hear it... then back it off a hair." Unless you're trying to use it as a special effect, and give that instrument distance from everything else.

When I mix, I usually record as dry as possible, then run a reverb as an effects send. That way, I can patch all of the instruments through the same set of parameters, but use the effects send on each channel to "nudge" the instrument in space. Drums need to echo a little more? Nudge 'em up a little. Bass too wet? Bring it down a little. 2 guitar parts? Pan 'em a little off center from each, and give the rhythm guitar a hair more reverb. Listen for any frequencies that are ringing out, and smooth 'em out.

Since you're now using the same reverb parameters on everyone, the mix is more cohesive because the instruments are in the same "space".

Also, you're running the guitars way louder than the backing tracks...
 
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Re: Mixing guitar sound

Thanks for all great answers.

I think I found one of my mistake, first I put a lot of reverb so it pushed the guitars back than without knowing I increased the volume to compensate that "distance" And as a result not only sounds bad, it also sounds totally different with different speakers and headphones.

jtougas said:
When I mix, I usually record as dry as possible, then run a reverb as an effects send. That way, I can patch all of the instruments through the same set of parameters, but use the effects send on each channel to "nudge" the instrument in space.
Click to expand...

I need a bit clarification what does means, yes I run dry signal to my DAW but I dont know how can I "patch all of the instruments through the same set of parameters" does this also mean that I should use the same reverb plugin for all tracks and not hall reverb on one and room reverb on another? And do you say I should keep all reverb parameters same except the "wetness" for individul reverb levels?
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

Depending on what DAW you use, you

1. set up either an FX track or an individual track; make sure to label it!
2. insert your desired effect(s) to this track running at 100% wet
3. have whatever tracks you want affected sent to the effects track; this done as a SEND from that track and how it works is slightly different depending on your DAW; a quick Google search for 'how to send effects in X' will get you a quick answer

There will have to be significant balancing done between how much signal you send to the fx track (also called 'bussing') and the level of the fx track itself to get your desired level of wet/effected:dry/uneffected

There is no limit to how many of these fx tracks you can set up (limited only by how insane you want to get and how much processing power you have on tap)

ALTERNATIVELY --

You can
1. mult* the desired track(s)
2. effect each track 100% wet
3. blend to taste

*Mult = create a copy of the original waveform on a new track
 
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Re: Mixing guitar sound

Just a couple of additional thoughts to this excellent post:

CTN said:
It sounds like there is a TON of reverb on the guitar tracks. It's pushing the guitar way back.

What you're essentially asking about is a general rule for EQing instruments so they can sound cohesive together.

Several things to mention:
1) it is normally better to cut away unwanted frequencies rather than to boost the ones you do want. By cutting the unwanted freq's, it leaves behind the desirable freq's, without making the signal of the track too high and risking clipping.
Click to expand...
There is no right or wrong way to do this, but in the beginning it is certainly easier to get good results by cutting rather than boosting. Over time I have developed a style where what I am capturing is +90% of the finished sound when tracking, and other than a high pass filter, remains un-EQ'd aside from a boosted freq or two to make it sit better.

General places to start:
High pass vox at 150 Hz
High pass guitars at 100-150 Hz
High pass bass instruments and keys at 50Hz

2) Every kind of instrument has it's own "strong spots" that make that instrument sound like itself. Almost every instrument also produces a lot of other frequencies when mic'd, which, when put together with a bunch of other instruments, can overlap, and create a confused, unfocused sounding mix. You can avoid this by EQing each instrument so that it leaves space for the frequencies produced by other instruments.
Click to expand...
A great way to rough out a mix is to take an EQ on a particular track and after applying a high pass, on another band, apply a stupid amount of gain with a narrow Q (width) and sweep it back and forth. Where it sounds bad, add a notch; where you want it to stand out, add a peak; start w 3-6dB on either.

Once you have all tracks done this way (once again, it's easier to EQ an entire buss then individual tracks, but there is no rule here) you can start fine-tuning the elimination of overlapping frequencies which are masking elements of your mix.

3) when you have more than one of the same kind of instrument, if they are playing parts that differ significantly in terms of pitch, you can use the EQ to make them sound distinct, but you can also pan them in opposite directions to create more spread and separate them.
Click to expand...
Yes! +1

4) There are no hard and fast rules for how to EQ a mix, because a lot of it depends on the kinds of tones you are going for with all the instruments and which frequencies need emphasis relative to each instrument.
Click to expand...
+1 here, too. Read up on the subject, and then read some more, and finally leave a book mark on your browser to your favourite references, as you will need to refresh your memory often.

5) It is normally better to create a good sounding dry mix (ie no effects at all) first, and then add effects accordingly.
Click to expand...
+1. I don't start thinking seriously about adding temporal (reverb, delay) or modulation effects until final mixing.

6) You could spend years learning about the technical nitty gritty of the above points, but you should read up a little on how to mix a full rock or blues band (Depending on the kinda music you're working on). And then start experimenting. Practice makes....well, not perfect, but better, at any rate.
Click to expand...
+1.
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

jtougas said:
When it comes to reverb, one professional I talked to said "Use just enough that you can hear it... then back it off a hair." Unless you're trying to use it as a special effect, and give that instrument distance from everything else.
Click to expand...

This is a great tip . . . and works very well in helping a guitar with 'verb sit properly in the mix.
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

Icarusfire said:
the last guitar solo does sound like it does not belong to the track.
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Perhaps, the guitar solo does not belong with the backing track?

SONICALLY
The organ sound is very full. It occupies many of the frequencies in which the high speed guitar playing operates. If the keyboard part is a MIDI note file, try using it to play a thinner sustained sound. Synth strings, for example.

STYLISTICALLY
The organ backing is in a style fairly strongly associated with slower, bluesy lead guitar. This does not make the fast playing "wrong" in this setting, just not what some people expect.
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

CTN said:
It sounds like there is a TON of reverb on the guitar tracks. It's pushing the guitar way back.

What you're essentially asking about is a general rule for EQing instruments so they can sound cohesive together.

Several things to mention:
1) it is normally better to cut away unwanted frequencies rather than to boost the ones you do want. By cutting the unwanted freq's, it leaves behind the desirable freq's, without making the signal of the track too high and risking clipping.

2) Every kind of instrument has it's own "strong spots" that make that instrument sound like itself. Almost every instrument also produces a lot of other frequencies when mic'd, which, when put together with a bunch of other instruments, can overlap, and create a confused, unfocused sounding mix. You can avoid this by EQing each instrument so that it leaves space for the frequencies produced by other instruments.

3) when you have more than one of the same kind of instrument, if they are playing parts that differ significantly in terms of pitch, you can use the EQ to make them sound distinct, but you can also pan them in opposite directions to create more spread and separate them.

4) There are no hard and fast rules for how to EQ a mix, because a lot of it depends on the kinds of tones you are going for with all the instruments and which frequencies need emphasis relative to each instrument.

5) It is normally better to create a good sounding dry mix (ie no effects at all) first, and then add effects accordingly.

6) You could spend years learning about the technical nitty gritty of the above points, but you should read up a little on how to mix a full rock or blues band (Depending on the kinda music you're working on). And then start experimenting. Practice makes....well, not perfect, but better, at any rate.
Click to expand...

This post needs to be engraved on a plaque and put on the wall of every home/project studio. Well done.

I would only add a few other basic things:

7. A good mix starts with a good performance and a good arrangement. If you're layering guitar parts, for example, you need each part to have a specific, useful, role, and you need to perform each part with that role in mind. Throwing tracks in just for the fun of it, or just because so-and-so famous band/producer does it like that, will cause you much pain and suffering at mix time.

8. Every time you add a track or an effect, always ask yourself: "does this really, honestly help the mix?" If the answer is anything other than "100% yes", throw that **** in the trash. When it comes to recording and mixing, the "less is more" mantra is everything. Trim the fat and your mix will be all the better for it.

9. Reverb doesn't have to be soaking wet, or set to the "airplane hangar" preset to be useful. 99% of the time you actually want the opposite: a decent-sized room dialed in to just below the level you can consciously perceive it. And always EQ your reverb to make sure it's not too shrill or too boomy. If you really, really, really want strong, noticeable echo, ALWAYS USE DELAY FOR THAT, NOT REVERB.

10. Compressors are a mix essential, but don't kill your dynamics with them! Keep the ratios reasonable (I consider anything above 4:1 to be an aggressive comp), set the thresholds to the point where they're only rounding about 3 - 6 db off the peaks, and be very careful with attack and release times. Learn what attack and release settings work best for which instruments (hint: for anything other than drums and percussion, an attack less than 50 ms is probably a bad idea). I could write a whole huge post about using compressors in a mix, so I'll just stop now before I get out of control :)
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

Guys all amazing answers thanks, I think I have to watch some videos on how to use EQ plugins. I tried to remaster the song keeping in mind all the suggestions:

 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

Tracks gel and mix in the 250hz-500hz range... that's also where the "mud" is, where the "warmth" is and where a lot of the mix's perceived low end is as well.

If things aren't blending, some additive EQ (in the above range)+limiting on the individual tracks will get them to start touching each other and overlapping in a positive way.
 
Re: Mixing guitar sound

zenmindbeginner said:
Tracks gel and mix in the 250hz-500hz range... that's also where the "mud" is, where the "warmth" is and where a lot of the mix's perceived low end is as well.

If things aren't blending, some additive EQ (in the above range)+limiting on the individual tracks will get them to start touching each other and overlapping in a positive way.
Click to expand...

These are the words I was looking for "blending" "touching eachother" yet I don't know how practically to apply this, for example what is the meaning of "limiting on the individual tracks"
 
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