Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

[TwilightOdyssey]

With the new album in the can it's time to put the finishing touches on the next release.
2013's release was mixed entirely in analogue
2014's release was mixed entirely in the box

This time I will be going for a hybrid approach using plugins and automation in the box combined with analogue summing, outboard gear, and level rides.

This thread will be used to document that process over the next couple of months. Hopefully, a) it will not be a boring read or b) a complete failure!

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

PART I

The first thing I needed to do was map out how I actually plan on proceeding.
Last time was very tight as I only had the 10 analogue outputs from my interface, which gave me a total of 5 mix buses: 3 stereo and 1 mono.

For this project I need a lot more flexibility. To get the extra buses, new equipment would be required. After doing some research, I pulled the trigger on a Behringer ADA8200. This enables me to use the ADAT output from the interface in addition to the analogue outputs, doubling my bus capability.

I now have 9 buses for mixing:
Drums (stereo)
Bass (mono)
Clean guitar (stereo)
Distorted guitar (stereo)
Lead guitar (mono)
Orchestral/keys (stereo)
Analogue synths (stereo)
Backing vocals (stereo)
Lead vocals (mono)

How on earth will all this be connected? More in Part II.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

How was it tracked?

What's your interface? Interested to see/ hear how having (potentially) one inferior D/A converter will affect the end result.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

How was it tracked?

Not sure I understand the question, but there is another thread where I decribe how I recorded the guitar tracks were recorded, if that is what you mean ...

What's your interface?

Focusrite Scarlett 18i20

Interested to see/ hear how having (potentially) one inferior D/A converter will affect the end result.

Me too, though I wouldn't classify the 8200 as inferior, but it will probably have a different tonality than the Focusrite.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

PART II

From a strict hardware perspective, there are not that many pieces of equipment to connect:
Interface
Mixing desk
Monitors
2 reverb units
5 compressors

From a signal-routing perspective, it's enough to induce a mid-sized Excedrin headache.

Here is where advance planning comes in, and I try to account for every cable; nothing is worse than being one cable short!

The first step for me, once I have the 'what' defined, is to start mapping out the 'how'. I know I have 18 total channels of audio output and 16 channels of audio channels for mixing, plus 2 for monitoring.

With that in mind, I made a chart that assigns audio ins and outs. Keeping things like to like makes it easier to follow (and trouble shoot).

Example: Bus 1 on my DAW is drums. This is routed to output 1-2 on the interface, into 1-2 on the patch bay, and through to 1-2 on the Mackie. This goes on with the rest of the buses.

The final chart looks something like this:

DESK INPUTS/18i20 OUTPUTS/PATCH BAY ASSIGNATIONS

1 drums left
2 drums right
3 bass (insert to compressor)
4 clean guitar left
5 clean guitar right
6 distorted guitar left
7 distorted guitar right
8 lead guitar (insert to echo?)
9 orchestral/keys left
10 orchestral/keys right
11 analog synth left (ADAT 1; DAW 13)
12 analog synth right (ADAT 2; DAW 14)
13 backing vox left (ADAT 3; DAW 15)
14 backing vox right (ADAT 4; DAW 16)
15 lead vox (ADAT 5; DAW 17)
16 (DAW 18)
17 mixdown left (ADAT 7; DAW 19): monitor controller
18 mixdown right (ADAT 8; DAW 20): monitor controller
19 [patch bay] 18i20 input 3 (output to mixdown track)
20 [patch bay] 18i20 input 4 (output to mixdown track)

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Huh, seems like a lot of mics on guitar and not very many on drums.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Huh, seems like a lot of mics on guitar and not very many on drums.

These are outputs from the buses, not the individual tracks.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Oh, gotcha. That makes more sense then.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

PART III

The next step is managing and designing signal flow. There are five 'signal streams' that need to be managed:
1 interface to desk
2 desk to outboard gear
3 outboard gear back to desk
4 mixdown back to interface
5 mixdown to monitors

It is imperative that what you monitor reflects what is making it to the 'record head' of the daw. For this reason, inputs 3-4 on my interface go straight to a track called 'mixdown' and then direct out via outputs 19-20 (daw)/17-18 (patch bay) to my monitor controller. This avoids a potential feedback loop and ensures that I am hearing audio as it passes its final stage.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

PART IV

Rack time! Wiring up racks is always a fun experience -- just kidding. It's tedious, expensive, and requires a phenomenal amount of TRS patch cables.

RACK 1 houses my interface and DAC. 18 cables for analogue outputs to the patch bay. 2 cables for analogue inputs to the patch bay.

RACK 2 houses my outboard gear and another patch bay. Another 18 cables from the reverbs and compressors to the patchbay.

That's 38 TRS cables BEHIND the rack, and another 38 required from the patch bay to Points Beyond. And don't forget the toslink cable for the DAC. And the wordclock cable. And the cables running from the monitor controller to the monitors. And the insert breakout cables for the bus inserts.

Oi!

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Pics or this ain't happening!

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Pics or this ain't happening!

All in good time, all in good time...

 

[ginormous]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

What's your DAW? What monitors are you using for most of your listening?

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

What's your DAW?

DAW is Logic Pro X running on a 2013 Mac Mini w 16GB RAM.

What monitors are you using for most of your listening?

For the majority of the mix, long before I start integrating to the analogue stuff, and am doing all of the necessary clean up, EQ, compression, rides, etc; essentially, anything that needs to happen in the box -- I use a pair of inexpensive Samson 5" monitors on IsoAcoustic stands. This is pretty much done at my 'late night' station, a highly portable rig that I can set up on the Dining Room table and break back down again every night in just a few minutes. The rest of the rig consists of Mac Mini, 19" monitor, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, and PreSonus Fader Port.



After I am done the critical stuff and shift from working in mono to stereo -- I have a pair of 8" JBL monitors that I use for the final stages, which is when I switch to the Flower Shoppe (the temporary mix setup I have in my daughters' room) and start the hybrid process.

 

[ginormous]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

What are your concerns for listening environment? Do you have a lot of standing wave/reflections that may affect your decisions?

Right now, it's all ITB for me, so I'd like to know how others deal with their challenges. Eventually, I'll be in a better environment with my own dedicated space.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

What are your concerns for listening environment?

Great question! I do not have a dedicated space, so my concerns are simple: know the space and have plenty of refs that I know intimately to compare against.

Do you have a lot of standing wave/reflections that may affect your decisions?

The best I can do in my room is measure carefully, apply absorption, and use IK's ARC System 2.

Right now, it's all ITB for me, so I'd like to know how others deal with their challenges. Eventually, I'll be in a better environment with my own dedicated space.

If I had a dedicated space, I would be very happy!
My rig has to be torn down/stored when not in use and brought out in various configurations depending on whether I am writing, reamping, mixing, etc.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Part IV.1

New 6U rack, 4 channel compressor, and power conditioner arrived yesterday. The auxiliary rack build starts this weekend.
Also ordered 3x 8-channel snakes to wire the patch bay to the desk (already have the patch cables to wire the units together).

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Part IV.2

... and it seems that my Lexicon Alex is in storage, doh! Hopefully can get down there today. Otherwise, the auxiliary rack is halfway loaded: power supply, patch bay, and compressors are in; gotta get my one Lexicon out of storage and the other Lexicon Alex is slated to arrive on Tuesday, I think, from Pixel Pro Audio.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Part IV.3

Well, I got to Public Storage and was greeted by a sickening sight: someone had busted open our storage locker! I looked everything over and it doesn't look like anything was taken, so I have no idea what happened ... but the Lexicon wasn't in there. Now, I have a lot of equipment in there and I cannot see someone breaking and entering into my storage space to lift a 20+ year old reverb unit ... but I couldn't find it. Came home, tore the house apart again -- no dice! grrrrr

So, thanks to Ebay, I was able to order another one in Niagra Falls for a great price. Which of course means that when I have time next weekend to go over the storage unit with a fine toothed comb, the original unit will prove to be buried somewhere deep within!

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Mixing in analogue -- here we go again!

Part IV.4

"New" Lexicon arrived yesterday. The one I ordered on Sunday should arrive by the end of the week according to shipping. So, Lex 1 goes in tonight, as well as connections to the patch bay. ALMOST ready to conduct the first test on the signal routing!!