Modified Les Paul Controls

[The Kormak]

So I'm modding my Aria Les Paul copy, and I intend to swap out both tone controls for a single master Vari-Tone rotary switch. I am also considering opting for a single master volume control, however i am undecided on how much I like blending my pickups.

Does anyone have any ideas on what i could put in the spare hole(s)? (On-Board Effects etc.) Looking at maybe the GFS Mid Boost circuit?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

You could use a pan/blend pot instead of a switch to retain blending of pickups. Or have a volume for each PUP and the master (a la Gretsch). However, either way would add resistance in series to the circuit, so that will have some affect on the sound.

 

[Psykel]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Maybe switches for splitting the pups or out-of-phasing? Killswitch?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Leave one tone control and wire as a spin-a-split. That'll let you dial in one of a HB's coils, from off to full on (single coil to HB) and give all the great unbalanced sounds inbetween. Very easy to do, no parts needed.

Have you played a guitar with a Varitone? I had one in a Lucille and was very disappointed in how weak and puny it's tones were. Not much use. That's the reason why no one else copied the Varitone (if something works in the guitar world, most of the other manufacturers copy it). Are you sure a Varitone will even fit in the cavity?

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Have you played a guitar with a Varitone? I had one and was very disappointed in how weak and puny it's tones were. Not much use.

+ 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

 

[The Kormak]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

It's more curiosity on the Varitone, I've heard several demos on youtube and such and I really like the concept, I plan on building one into a footswitch with different capacitors and seeing what works best before I install one in the guitar. The custom ones seem to sound loads better than the original production model.

I've since decided that I'm going to keep the two volume pots so I can blend the pickups and use the pickup switch as a killswitch, so I'll only have one pot spare. What does the spin-a-split sound like compared to just switching off one coil of the humbucker?

Thanks for the replies guys

 

[blueman335]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

It's more curiosity on the Varitone, I've heard several demos on youtube and such and I really like the concept, I plan on building one into a footswitch with different capacitors and seeing what works best before I install one in the guitar. The custom ones seem to sound loads better than the original production model.

I've since decided that I'm going to keep the two volume pots so I can blend the pickups and use the pickup switch as a killswitch, so I'll only have one pot spare. What does the spin-a-split sound like compared to just switching off one coil of the humbucker?

Spin-a-split can totally shut off one coil, to give true coil cut (i.e. coil split). However the beauty of it is that it's just the tone pot converted into a second volume control for one coil only. No new parts needed, no push-pull. You can dial in any amount of the second coil you want, all or nothing, and everything inbetween. Unbalanced coils are one of the main things that gave the original 1950's PAF's such great sounds, because it was a blend of humbucker and single coil tones. Spin-a-split gives you totally flexibility on how much of the second coil you have active. Note that in the great guitar tones of the 1950's, PAF's are universally recognized as a major part of it; nowhere have I ever seen that Varitones contributed anything tonally to the era's great sounds. PAF's were a 'home run', and many manufacturers today make replicas. Huge demand. Varitones were a 'strike out'; an experiment that never panned out. Try finding a stock guitar with one. Basically only Gibson/Epiphone have them, and on hardly any models; they only do it for 'historical' reasons, and not because there's any tonal merit, and any demand for it (there isn't).

A few people have made minor improvements on the original Varitone, but it's still not a viable idea. Looks great on paper, but in the real world players don't want them. One of the most unwanted, and sometimes hated, things you can have on a guitar. The thing flopped in the 1950's and no one's come up with a way to make it appealing to any but a handful of curious players. I was one of them myself, and have owned both a Gibson Varitone and a custom made one. Big let down. They just don't produce usable tones. You think that instead of the normal 3 PU options, you get 18. In theory yes, but if all the 15 Varitone sounds are weak and crappy, what does that get you? A big clunky electronic device you don't use. I've been thru it, trust me. They're a waste of time and money. If the concept had anything to offer, you'd see them regularly on guitars. Guitar makers copy everything that works, everything that players like. They don't copy Varitones. Not a coincidence.

You get far more usable tones by wiring a guitar for independent volume controls (so you can blend each PU) and spin-a-split (so you can blend one coil). Infinitely better than a Varitone.

 

[The Kormak]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Fair enough, I'll take a look at the Spin-a-split sometime as that sounds like a neat idea. Would you usually use it on a single pickup or have one for each pickup?

 

[blueman335]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Fair enough, I'll take a look at the Spin-a-split sometime as that sounds like a neat idea. Would you usually use it on a single pickup or have one for each pickup?

You can do spin-a-split for one or both PU's, either wired together on one pot or separately on two. I like spin-a-split best on neck humbuckers, as it cuts out any muddy or muffled sounds, but it works the same for bridge HB's too. I start with either full HB and dial down the one coil to add treble and thin it out. Or turn the spin-a-split all the way down so I'm at single coil, then gradually add in a little of the second coil to give it a more output and body.

One of the newest Duncan PU's is the '59/Custom hybrid. With spin-a-split, if you have a Custom 5 in the bridge, just dial down the volume of the second coil to where it has the same output as a '59. And you can still have the full HB sound of a Custom 5 (which you can't with a '59/Custom hybrid), or true single coil.

Combine two spin-a-splits with independent volume controls, and you can blend PU's and coils. Gives you a huge amount of flexibility. In the middle toggle position, you can dial in any amount of each PU, and how much of the coils you want:

- bridge HB / neck HB
- bridge HB / neck single coil
- neck HB / bridge single coil
- bridge HB / neck partially split
- neck HB / bridge partially split
- bridge single coil / neck partially split
- neck single coil / bridge partially split
- bridge single coil / neck single coil

plus:
- bridge HB (alone)
- bridge single coil
- bridge partially split
- neck HB (alone)
- neck single coil
- neck partially split

Lots of usable tones (14), and any of the 'partially split' options encompass a wide range of tones in themselves. And for both spin-a-split and independent volume controls, you use the existing pots, nothing more to buy. All you need is PU's with 4-wire leads. Simple and versatile. You can wire a guitar for these in 15 minutes.

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Head 'Asplodes...

 

[Psykel]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Btw, if the Gibson-style Varitone is weaksauce, check out the Stellartone ToneStyler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv875xEVKdA
That one seems quite useful actually. And it's about the size of a standard pot, so shouldn't be a problem to fit it in the cavity.

 

[The Kormak]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Ok, so what if I was to wire one tone pot as a 'master' spin-a-split affecting the two center-most coils then had the second wired as a bridge volume with the Blackouts Modular Preamp, with a switch to send the signal through either the original bridge pot or the BMP one? Any ideas on how that'd sound?

Edit: Would I be able to run the Spin-a-split with a push/pull pot so I can still have it function as a tone control on my neck pickup (Thats the only tone control I use)?

 

[The Kormak]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Starting this project soon, any advice/ideas?

 

[The Kormak]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Cough*Bump*Cough

 

[uOpt]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

Is the varitone thing just a bunch of load capacitors? Even I gave up on that concept.

 

[aleclee]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

I once wired up a guitar with master volume, neck pickup volume, and two tone controls. That let me to set separate volume on the neck pickup (which I'd be more likely to roll off), do volume swells independent of pickup selection, and do stutter effects.

 

[OttoMatick]

Re: Modified Les Paul Controls

So I'm modding my Aria Les Paul copy, and I intend to swap out both tone controls for a single master Vari-Tone rotary switch. I am also considering opting for a single master volume control, however i am undecided on how much I like blending my pickups.

Does anyone have any ideas on what i could put in the spare hole(s)? (On-Board Effects etc.) Looking at maybe the GFS Mid Boost circuit?

Having a Lucille es345, I built and tried a varitone in one of my strats. It was one of the first independent mods I ever did and this is what I learned. I think the whole varitone thing is marketing hype for the following reasons:

all tone caps sound the same at 10.
I never heard of a good guitar riff because of a tone pot swell.
The capacitors used in a varitone all overlap. A .047 cap will overlap the treble drop of the ones before it on the varitone. Whats left is a .02, .03. etc... Anything above .047 for guitar is not usable. Anything below a .02 may as well be jumpered on the volume pot between the zero sided pole and the sweep arm.

While Gibson may have created a small niche with Varitone knobs, they're really not that useful and I recommend against them since just using a .047 cap will provide all the tone variations a varitone will.

I think you should look at the jimmy page wiring. Splits on the volume pulls, series on one tone pull and phase on the other tone pull. Of course the series and phase only work in the middle switch positions. You get SS, HH, SH, HS, HH/SS(series on Pull) and HH/SS phase on pull. That is 10 different pickup wiring combos not counting bridge/neck only H/S.