More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, etc...

[Gardener]

Hello,..

I wanted to pose this question as I know nothing about wiring and about what is capable in regards to modding and really getting the most out of ones guitar.

I am learning, albeit slowly, (soldering yesterday seemed to take forever!)

Basically, I only have a bridge P-Rail and am trying to maximize the tonal capabilities of my Melody Maker (without adding another pickup) So that's why I bought the P-Rail as it was designed for coil splitting and already offers up 3 ( 4 options I just found out) in the way of pickup options

Icantbuyafender seems to really be an advocate of the tripleshot, (which seems counter intuitive to me, although it would really cut down on crowding in the cavity). I also recently became aware of the free-way switch sold by Stewmac and the Fender superswitch (which seems like wouldn't work in my Melody Maker anyways)

In my searches I learned of concentric pots as well which seem like a wonderful invention considering my limited cavity space (although I am willing to route out more if need be) The ability to, in one small space, change your tone and then increase or decrease the volume seems magical (plus they look cool)

Also.... I've recently learned about the options of series/parallel, which lead me to thinking that a push/pull pot might be in order to access said tonal options (considering that if it was a part of a multi-switch then I couldn't engage series or parallel and then switch between my pickup options?) It is still all very confusing to me.

...Then shortly thereafter I found out about the Varitone and Varitone style switches which use capacitors to allow you numerous tonal shades, which seems like an amazing feature as well

As you can see, I am completely overwhelmed by all these options. I am like a kid in a candy store. Each container of candy looks shiny and the descriptions are tantalizing, but I don't want spend my paper route money,to get the candy, put it in my mouth and then realize it tastes like rubbery brussel sprouts when I really wanted tasty taffy. Can't say I don't want it once it's been chewed on (Luckily it's not paper route money)

Often times I end up wanting to do something unique or off the beaten track just to find out that what I am envisioning is difficult, that the items/tools/parts/ are hard to come by or rare and that more often then not I am completely oblivious as to what said thing would actually entail or if it is even really possible.

I came across this website (Tonefiend) and my interest really became piqued. I started sifting through the website and came across his pagey project... and to say the least am blown away by the potential of a similar type of mod. I'll be honest, I have only been playing guitar for 3 years, I am what would be considered an noob in many ways, but I am trying to build a guitar that I can grow into which will keep me satisfied for years and years to come all things willing.

Here is a link to the said link for reference:

http://tonefiend.com/the-pagey-project-resource-page/

So at this point, really, I am just trying to get as many usable settings and tones as possible from my beloved MM.

So my first question is:

• Would it even be worth it? Would the differences in tone and/or settings be negligible?
  
• Using the P-Rail would it even be possible to use a varitone type switch to modify the tone on all the P-Rail settings?
  
• Would it be ideal to have a push/pull pot to engage series/parallel options?
  
• Would a concentric pot not be a viable option given I would be attempting to utilize a varitone style switch?
  

Any wiring gods able to easily wrap their head around the concept I am toying with here? (To me it seems really complex, but to someone who knows wiring this may be childs play)

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,

G. Gardener

 

[thqm3]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

Welcome!

1. I think it would be worth it since your stated objective is to maximise the available options. You can get up to six different options using the two coils: neck coil/bridge coil/coils parallel in phase/coils parallel out of phase/coils series in phase/coils series out of phase. Each would be significantly different given that you're using a P-Rail. "Usable" may be a different matter though...
2. Yes.
3. Maybe. you could use the triple shot for the series/parallel/north coil/south coil, and a push-pull to invert the phase. If this were my project I'd use a six-way rotary for all splitting/phasing functions as I find the triple shots a bit fiddly - hard to make blind changes mid-song. the '70s Gibson L6-S (not the reissue) had a six-way rotary for two humbuckers that managed series/parallel/in/out phase wiring scheme like I laid out in point 1. I haven't had a look at any schematics but the Free-Way 'Ultra' seems like it has enough terminal connections to be able to do the same wiring scheme.
4. Then you could use a concentric pot for volume and tone. I'm not aware, off the top of my head, of any aftermarket concentric push-pulls, although they definitely exist - there's one on my warwick thumb. the melody maker body may not be thick enough to fit one though because there are two pot bodies stacked, plus the switch, making it well over an inch deep inside the body cavity.

 

[wokrzysiek]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

I did a warmoth superstrat with the mods similar to tonefield. I have triple shots and two push pulls. First to make pickups out of phase, second to run the artec bcu band controller unit. I have also 4 way tele switch to make both pickups in series. It was fun to do, but if you expect miracles, you'll be disappointed. You can get some pretty cool sounds out of it though. I''ve noticed that when you split bridge pickup , you'll get different tones out of each coil. When mixing it with neck in series, you can get your middle position, but in a bit different flavor. Another nice sound is the series and out of phase. It's nosy when playing it clean, but on higher gain and in higher fret positions you can get nice singing lead tones. I think that Brian May did that with Bourns single coil pickups.

 

[Gardener]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

Welcome!

1. I think it would be worth it since your stated objective is to maximise the available options. You can get up to six different options using the two coils: neck coil/bridge coil/coils parallel in phase/coils parallel out of phase/coils series in phase/coils series out of phase. Each would be significantly different given that you're using a P-Rail. "Usable" may be a different matter though...
2. Yes.
3. Maybe. you could use the triple shot for the series/parallel/north coil/south coil, and a push-pull to invert the phase. If this were my project I'd use a six-way rotary for all splitting/phasing functions as I find the triple shots a bit fiddly - hard to make blind changes mid-song. the '70s Gibson L6-S (not the reissue) had a six-way rotary for two humbuckers that managed series/parallel/in/out phase wiring scheme like I laid out in point 1. I haven't had a look at any schematics but the Free-Way 'Ultra' seems like it has enough terminal connections to be able to do the same wiring scheme.
4. Then you could use a concentric pot for volume and tone. I'm not aware, off the top of my head, of any aftermarket concentric push-pulls, although they definitely exist - there's one on my warwick thumb. the melody maker body may not be thick enough to fit one though because there are two pot bodies stacked, plus the switch, making it well over an inch deep inside the body cavity.

Hello, thanks for your reply.

So it is actually possible to to use in and out of phase even though I am only using the bridge P-Rail and not a neck P-rail? Is that because technically this is three single coils in one pickup?

Recently I became aware of the 4p4t rotary switch and I was thinking of potentially using that for switching my pickup options. But with the addition of in and out of phase then technically my total options would be: neck coil (rail), bridge coil (p-90?), coils series in phase (humbucker?), coils series out of phase(humbucker?),coils parallel in phase(humbucker?), coils parallel out of phase(humbucker?) ?

So technically the neck coil is the "rail" coil,.. So would the "p-90" sound be when only the Bridge coil is activated? Or would that be when both the Neck (North) and Bridge (South) coils are working together? I guess series is the "humbucker" sound. (Middle & South?)

Basically what you described in #1 is where I am going with this.. I like the idea of a rotary switch for the pickup options, that way if the concentric pot will fit then I would have the concentric pot for volume/tone, six-way rotary for pickup selection, six-way rotary wired as a varitone, on/on killswitch and a momentary killswitch.

You said at the end of #1 as well that usable is a different matter. Luckily I am playing ambient/post-rock stuff using a violin bow and loopers and delay and reverb and such,.. so usable tone to me is definitely a broad definition.

I didn't think about if the concentric pot would be too large,.. If it isn't any longer than the input jack then I should be fine. (Which has a very slightly more routed circle in the cavity)

Side question: Since you seem to have your head around this.

If I was to get the concentric pot, I was thinking of making the tone pot a No Load tone pot, so that way I can bypass the tone on the concentric pot when needed to brighten up the sound and not muddy the tone before altering the tone with the varitone, but.. If I did this would it negate the effects of the varitone switch because I have bypassed the tone on the concentric pot? (Obviously a wiring novice here)

P.S. - I like your signature (I am in the process of learn how to solder, so I concur.)

Thanks again for your reply. Every day I seem to be learning new directions with this build.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

I've done a lot of experimenting with P-Rails and with Triple Shots. I've owned Varitone equipped guitars, and I've installed rotary switches.
I say this just to let you know that what I am about to say is not just conjecture nor assumptions, but I have had real practical experience with all of your concerns (except the StewMac Free-Way switch).

First let me say that you have made a great selection in the P-Rail as your pup in a single pup guitar. But to get the most tonal variety possible out of it I would mount it with the rail coil next to the bridge...the rail coil will sound brighter/spankier/more Tele-like and the P-90 coil will sound slightly meatier. With the P-90 coil toward the bridge, the rail and P-90 coils sound very similar.

I would also recommend the Triple Shot mounting ring. thqm3 said that he found it difficult to make blind changes mid-song and that he prefers a rotary switch. I have been using Triple Shots since they first came out and have been using rotary switches even longer (about 45 years) and I can tell you that the TS is WAY easier to get ACCURATE changes on the fly. Once you get used to the TS it is very quick, easy, and intuitive to use and to get it to the position that you want. With a rotary it is too easy to "flip" it to the wrong position on the fly. It is not quick nor is it easy to rotate.

Next thing to consider is that in your MM there is definitely not enough room for a stacked P/P pot or a 4 Pole rotary switch and may not even be enough room for a Push/Pull pot without routing your cavity a little deeper (dangerous). A 2 pole rotary (the same as used for a Varitone) will probably fit, however, and the Free-Way will fit easily.

I also found that with my ES 345 (with a Varitone), I basically only used one position (the bypass position), and only rarely used one or two other positions. So basically...it was nearly useless. Certainly not worth the effort and headaches involved with making, wiring, and installing one yourself. A lot of tedious soldering.

If you want to get out of phase options, I would recommend either a mini DPDT switch or a push/push switch (easier to operate than a push/pull).

 

[Gardener]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

I've done a lot of experimenting with P-Rails and with Triple Shots. I've owned Varitone equipped guitars, and I've installed rotary switches.
I say this just to let you know that what I am about to say is not just conjecture nor assumptions, but I have had real practical experience with all of your concerns (except the StewMac Free-Way switch).

First let me say that you have made a great selection in the P-Rail as your pup in a single pup guitar. But to get the most tonal variety possible out of it I would mount it with the rail coil next to the bridge...the rail coil will sound brighter/spankier/more Tele-like and the P-90 coil will sound slightly meatier. With the P-90 coil toward the bridge, the rail and P-90 coils sound very similar.

I would also recommend the Triple Shot mounting ring. thqm3 said that he found it difficult to make blind changes mid-song and that he prefers a rotary switch. I have been using Triple Shots since they first came out and have been using rotary switches even longer (about 45 years) and I can tell you that the TS is WAY easier to get ACCURATE changes on the fly. Once you get used to the TS it is very quick, easy, and intuitive to use and to get it to the position that you want. With a rotary it is too easy to "flip" it to the wrong position on the fly. It is not quick nor is it easy to rotate.

Next thing to consider is that in your MM there is definitely not enough room for a stacked P/P pot or a 4 Pole rotary switch and may not even be enough room for a Push/Pull pot without routing your cavity a little deeper (dangerous). A 2 pole rotary (the same as used for a Varitone) will probably fit, however, and the Free-Way will fit easily.

I also found that with my ES 345 (with a Varitone), I basically only used one position (the bypass position), and only rarely used one or two other positions. So basically...it was nearly useless. Certainly not worth the effort and headaches involved with making, wiring, and installing one yourself. A lot of tedious soldering.

If you want to get out of phase options, I would recommend either a mini DPDT switch or a push/push switch (easier to operate than a push/pull).

First off.. I want to thank you for the in depth reply. I'm trying really hard to maximize this guitar, but simply don't have the years of wisdom or electrical knowledge to know what will and will not work.

You don't think there would be room for a concentric pot? Hmmm.. Looking at the depth at which the input jack goes into the body it looks like it wouldn't be an issue.... The cable jack itself is a little over an 1 inch and so I am assuming that the input jack is probably at least 1 inch. Which works out to 25 mm..

The cavity depth required for a a 6 way 4 pole rotary switch is 33.34mm... Hmmm...
http://www.allparts.com/EP-0920-000-6-position-Rotary-Switch_p_1345.html

The length of the pot from the bottom to the threaded portion is 22.25mm...
http://www.allparts.com/EP-4586-000-CTS-500K-500K-Concentric-Audio-Pot_p_1444.html

I wish I would've measured the depth of the cavity before I threw the pickguard back on.. I don't mind doing a little bit of routing, I just don't want to go through the body! Haha! Because I will have to rout the body to hold the P-Rail anyways..

I see what you're saying about the TS and then just using a DPDT switch for in phase and out of phase. I can see how it could be easier.

Wouldn't the rotary switch click into each option? Or would it be smooth? I guess that depends on the switch perhaps..

In regards to the difference between 4 pole and 2 pole... um.. whats the difference? What advantage do I gain from using a 4 pole versus a 2 pole and vice versa?

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. It is REALLY helpful.

 

[J E C]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

A 4 pole gives you more possible wiring options than a 2 pole switch. Pots with push/pull or push/push switches are rather tall and so are some concentric pots. Just make sure you measure your cavity depth and body thickness properly.

 

[Gardener]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

A 4 pole gives you more possible wiring options than a 2 pole switch. Pots with push/pull or push/push switches are rather tall and so are some concentric pots. Just make sure you measure your cavity depth and body thickness properly.

Hi there,..

So does that mean that if I was to use the 6 position 2 pole rotary switch that I would still be able to attain : neck coil (rail)/bridge coil (P-90?)/coils parallel in phase (humbucker)/coils parallel out of phase(humbucker)/coils series in phase(humbucker)/coils series out of phase(humbucker)?

Because if that's the case and I don't actually need 4 pole, then I would just be clogging up the cavity for no reason.

I guess I am still a little bit confused as to which coils do what inside a P-Rail, besides the rail pickup being obvious I am assuming that the humbucker is the two coils underneath used simultaneously. So then does the P-90 sounds come from using the Rail coil (north) and one of the humbucker coils (south)? Or is it from the Rail coil and middle coil?

I can't seem to find any mention as to which coils are used for what settings.

 

[thqm3]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

Hello, thanks for your reply.

So it is actually possible to to use in and out of phase even though I am only using the bridge P-Rail and not a neck P-rail? Is that because technically this is three single coils in one pickup?

Recently I became aware of the 4p4t rotary switch and I was thinking of potentially using that for switching my pickup options. But with the addition of in and out of phase then technically my total options would be: neck coil (rail), bridge coil (p-90?), coils series in phase (humbucker?), coils series out of phase(humbucker?),coils parallel in phase(humbucker?), coils parallel out of phase(humbucker?) ?

So technically the neck coil is the "rail" coil,.. So would the "p-90" sound be when only the Bridge coil is activated? Or would that be when both the Neck (North) and Bridge (South) coils are working together? I guess series is the "humbucker" sound. (Middle & South?)

Basically what you described in #1 is where I am going with this.. I like the idea of a rotary switch for the pickup options, that way if the concentric pot will fit then I would have the concentric pot for volume/tone, six-way rotary for pickup selection, six-way rotary wired as a varitone, on/on killswitch and a momentary killswitch.

You said at the end of #1 as well that usable is a different matter. Luckily I am playing ambient/post-rock stuff using a violin bow and loopers and delay and reverb and such,.. so usable tone to me is definitely a broad definition.

I didn't think about if the concentric pot would be too large,.. If it isn't any longer than the input jack then I should be fine. (Which has a very slightly more routed circle in the cavity)

Side question: Since you seem to have your head around this.

If I was to get the concentric pot, I was thinking of making the tone pot a No Load tone pot, so that way I can bypass the tone on the concentric pot when needed to brighten up the sound and not muddy the tone before altering the tone with the varitone, but.. If I did this would it negate the effects of the varitone switch because I have bypassed the tone on the concentric pot? (Obviously a wiring novice here)

P.S. - I like your signature (I am in the process of learn how to solder, so I concur.)

Thanks again for your reply. Every day I seem to be learning new directions with this build.

No worries yo! The P-Rail is actually only TWO single coil pickups put together, similar to a standard humbucker, there is just a greater difference between the two coils which gives more varied tonal options between the coils, but you seem to have that straight in the rest of your description. You can indeed reverse the phase between the two coils as if they were separate pickups. The descriptions of coil selections in your third paragraph are accurate. In your fourth paragraph, the p90 coil is the bridge coil alone. series is the full, modern-sounding humbucker mode, and parallel gives a sound kind of like a vintage humbucker. the series and parallel modes with phase reversed between the coils give two different flavours of a thin, scratchy kind of tone - I could definitely see those being useful in an ambient/post-rock setting.

A no-load tone pot wouldn't affect the way a Varitone works, they're two different parts of the circuit. I'm not aware of any stock concentric no-load pot - I understand pots can be modified for this function but I've never tried it. FWIW I don't find the stock no-load pot on my Strat to be particularly useful, but that bridge pickup is very bright anyway...


I'd like to add that for selecting pickups/coils the option of 6 way rotary vs triple shot plus phase switch is totally at your discretion - like GuitarDoc, I too have experimented extensively with wiring, including P-Rails, Triple Shots and rotary switches, and what I have to say is similarly free of assumption or conjecture unless indicated. I merely found the 6-way rotary to work best - caveat - FOR ME. Mind you, I am among the apparent minority who like PRS's 5-way rotary pickup selector. YMMV, as does GuitarDoc's, evidently. I am, however, inclined to agree with his opinion regarding the implementation of the Varitone - I rarely used it in the BluesHawk I owned for a year or so.


PS - the 6 position, 2 pole switch won't have enough contacts to access series/parallel and phase options - per this diagram, you need a minimum of three poles, so you may well run into issues with cavity depth.

Happy soldering!

 

[Gardener]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

No worries yo! The P-Rail is actually only TWO single coil pickups put together, similar to a standard humbucker, there is just a greater difference between the two coils which gives more varied tonal options between the coils, but you seem to have that straight in the rest of your description. You can indeed reverse the phase between the two coils as if they were separate pickups. The descriptions of coil selections in your third paragraph are accurate. In your fourth paragraph, the p90 coil is the bridge coil alone. series is the full, modern-sounding humbucker mode, and parallel gives a sound kind of like a vintage humbucker. the series and parallel modes with phase reversed between the coils give two different flavours of a thin, scratchy kind of tone - I could definitely see those being useful in an ambient/post-rock setting.

A no-load tone pot wouldn't affect the way a Varitone works, they're two different parts of the circuit. I'm not aware of any stock concentric no-load pot - I understand pots can be modified for this function but I've never tried it. FWIW I don't find the stock no-load pot on my Strat to be particularly useful, but that bridge pickup is very bright anyway...


I'd like to add that for selecting pickups/coils the option of 6 way rotary vs triple shot plus phase switch is totally at your discretion - like GuitarDoc, I too have experimented extensively with wiring, including P-Rails, Triple Shots and rotary switches, and what I have to say is similarly free of assumption or conjecture unless indicated. I merely found the 6-way rotary to work best - caveat - FOR ME. Mind you, I am among the apparent minority who like PRS's 5-way rotary pickup selector. YMMV, as does GuitarDoc's, evidently. I am, however, inclined to agree with his opinion regarding the implementation of the Varitone - I rarely used it in the BluesHawk I owned for a year or so.


PS - the 6 position, 2 pole switch won't have enough contacts to access series/parallel and phase options - per this diagram, you need a minimum of three poles, so you may well run into issues with cavity depth.

Happy soldering!

Okay,... haha! That helps to clear things up a bit.. See, I thought the rail was a single coil as well,... but it's not.. so there is technically the rail (which isn't a single coil) and then two individually wrapped single coils side by side beneath the rail pickup. Okay~ I think I'm getting it now.

I'm definitely partial to the rotary style switch. I feel it would be easier to have it in a setting and then it not accidentally be bumped or switched. I do need things to be somewhat fast as I will be looping and then changing tones on the fly, but at the same time the fact that the rotary clicks into position like that is pretty appealing to me.

In regards to your PS: That is really helpful to know, last thing I want is to sacrifice my options just because I don't want to route the cavity a little more.. After work today I plan to open the guitar up again and measure the cavity.

Hmm,.. it seems as if the people who really seem to be supporters of the Varitione are all Jazz guys (for the most part) I've seen quite a few threads now with people saying the setting they use most is #1 - the bypass. I guess my reason for it is customization and the ability to really find "your tone" as a guitarist.. It definitely seems to be a mixed bag as far as peoples opinions of the Varitone are concerned (more seem to think it a pointless addition then an actually usable benefit)

It definitely gives me some food for thought, I was talking to a guy at my local guitar store and when I explained what my plan is with this guitar he was lost even. (..and he is the guy there that does all their electrical!) He is however keenly interested in my results.

Also, thanks for the diagram, it's like reading braille to me at this point, but I am sure I will figure it out by the time all the parts arrive.

..I'm really loving this forums thus far, very insightful

Thank you so much,

 

[thqm3]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

Hold up, the P90 is one coil and the rail is the other coil - two separate single coil pickups that make up the humbucker, hence "P"-"Rail". They're just different shapes and different winds, which is why they sound so different from each other.

if it comes to routing, adhere to the "measure twice, cut once" adage. I'm not sure how thick the body is on your melody maker, but I understand them to be fairly slim guitars. Last thing you want is a gaping hole all the way through the body.

 

[Gardener]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

Hold up, the P90 is one coil and the rail is the other coil - two separate single coil pickups that make up the humbucker, hence "P"-"Rail". They're just different shapes and different winds, which is why they sound so different from each other.

if it comes to routing, adhere to the "measure twice, cut once" adage. I'm not sure how thick the body is on your melody maker, but I understand them to be fairly slim guitars. Last thing you want is a gaping hole all the way through the body.

I definitely agree with the measure twice cut once adage,.. I'll probably measure 10x or more and research, and then measure then research.

Oh okay.. so inside the bottom half it is just a huge single coil wound a lot of times?

I thought there were three single coils inside one of them being the rail .. (I obviously don't know much about pickups yet..

Ah, I see, I see...

 

[jimijames]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

I know this makes me a bad person, but I didn't read very much of the earlier parts of the thread. I've used the P-Rails in all four modes (series/parallel/rail split, p-90 split) and I must say that the sounds offered by each position are absolutely unique. It does a great job of providing single coil/p-90 sounds, and a colorable imitation of PAF humbuckers and hot h/u pickups.

You can get all four sounds with just two push-pulls, I know SD has it somewhere on the 'support' section of the main site. I would go with that, because it sounds awesome and is simple to use. I only have a master volume/master tone on my HH jazzmaster and I can get just about every sound I would ever use, with just 2 push-pulls. IMO it's the most efficient wiring schematic, ever.

 

[Gardener]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

I know this makes me a bad person, but I didn't read very much of the earlier parts of the thread. I've used the P-Rails in all four modes (series/parallel/rail split, p-90 split) and I must say that the sounds offered by each position are absolutely unique. It does a great job of providing single coil/p-90 sounds, and a colorable imitation of PAF humbuckers and hot h/u pickups.

You can get all four sounds with just two push-pulls, I know SD has it somewhere on the 'support' section of the main site. I would go with that, because it sounds awesome and is simple to use. I only have a master volume/master tone on my HH jazzmaster and I can get just about every sound I would ever use, with just 2 push-pulls. IMO it's the most efficient wiring schematic, ever.

Unfortunately as I mentioned earlier,.. I am using a Melody Maker, so at this point I will have to rout the cavity a little to fit some of the things I am looking to install, I'm not even 100% sure a push pull pot would work let alone the other eletronics.. I am planning on using a concentric pot, (with the tone pot modded for No Load) and then a rotary switch for pickup selection and a rotary switch (varitone) for tone.

If things don't work out I may have to use an on/off switch for phase and a TripleShot for pickup selection.. or something :/

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

Oh okay.. so inside the bottom half it is just a huge single coil wound a lot of times?

I thought there were three single coils inside one of them being the rail .. (I obviously don't know much about pickups yet..

Ah, I see, I see...

No, you don't see. Not yet.

I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding this concept. First, look at this...

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=color_codes

There are several pups pictured. To keep it very simple and not get too technical, they all have two coils...a "slug" coil and a "screw" coil. Both coils are essentially the same size. Each coil is wound with wire. On one coil (of the SD pup for example) the start of that wire winding is colored black, and the finish is white. The other coil's start is green and its finish is red. Each of these "coils" is a separate pickup and can be played by itself (in "split mode"). When the two coils are wired together they become a "humbucker" pickup because the two coils cancel out any hum inherent in just a single coil.

The P-Rail pup is just the same, in that it has two independent single coils...the P-90 and the Rail. The most obvious difference is that in the P-Rail the two coils are not the same size as the ones in the above link...the P-90 coil is large and the Rail is very small. But there are still just two coils in the P-Rail. These coils can be played separately as either the "P-90" (single coil) or the "Rail" (single coil), or they can be played wired together (two coils) as a "humbucker" pup (either in series or in parallel). So, with the P-Rail you get four pups-in-one...P-90 (single coil), Rail (single coil), series humbucker (both coils), parallel humbucker (both coils).


Now, here's why I said that the Triple Shot is much easier to use than a rotary switch. The TS has two short-throw slide switches mounted in the top of the surround. Each switch has two positions...right or left. It is very simple to slide one of the switches to either the left or right position and it will stay in that position while you play (it can't get accidentally bumped/switched). When you are, say, in humbucker mode and you want to change to either P-90 or Rail mode you simply slide one of the switches. Easy. It can be done in an instant without even thinking about it.

The rotary switch is also very secure, in that once you have it in any position it is next to impossible to accidentally rotate it out of that position. BUT, when you want to change to a different setting/tone, you need to remember which position you are currently in and which pos. you need to go to, and make sure you go to that position and not a position one click before or after the one you want. So with a 6 pos. rotary, let's say you are in position #2 (parallel bucker, for example) and want to go to P-90 which is, say, pos. #5. It is not easy (at least for me) to remember which tone is in which position in the first place, but then to switch the rotary (in this example) from #2 to #5 without accidentally going to either #4 or #6 on the fly mid-song is next to impossible. Yes, it can be done accurately every time, but it takes more time, more concentration (which I don't have to spare while I'm playing), and it usually requires me to look at the switch to make sure it is in the correct position.

I don't have any of these problems with the Triple Shot, and I don't need to drill any more holes in my guitars.

 

[Gardener]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

That makes quite a bit of sense in regards to the example using the rotary switch for pickup selection.

After much consideration and with efficiency and minimalism in mind I've decided to go with the Triple Shot. Not to mention my limited cavity space and the desire to not route unnecessarily.

I appreciate all of the assistance and advice everyone has given me thus far and I look forward to posting about my journey once I am at the stages where I can actually do so.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

One thing I always do with Triple Shots is to use the alternate wiring scheme. That way the switches always point toward the active coil (in the normal wiring, the switches point toward the inactive coil...seem dumb to me and not intuitive at all).

 

[Gardener]

Re: More P-Rail questions:Triple Shot?Free-way+Varitone+Push/Pull?Concentric Pot?, et

I completely agree the alternate wiring scheme seems like the most intuitive option to me as well.