Most pick responsive tubes ?

[El Dunco]

Depends on the active pickup too. The EMG 85 has a VERY laid-back attack. Too much for my taste.

And passive PAF's have A LOT of attack for Metal. Like... A LOT. I like it, but they get almost single-coil-y scratchy if you're not careful and don't run them through a boost that sorta smooths them out a bit.

AFAIK, the Laney GH series are kinda sorta like a beefed up higher-gain 800 to an extent.

81 with 18volts (now 24 because they have an adapter to put two 12v in which saves a lot of space in the cavity) is perfect for that. It’s quite meaty, not thin at all. People are raving about the Fluence but I’d sooner put them in a different guitar or get one that comes with them because it sounds perfect as is. I dropped a Black Winter into my Schecter V that came stock with a JB and it’s amazing.

The JB sounded pretty heavy, the DD was tighter but a bit thinner, but the BW is like Rita from Power Rangers used her grow wand on the JB and now I have to lay low for levelling the orphanage across the street after trying it out.

To be clear, I only recommended different power tubes if your tone is ideal at low-ish volumes, but craps the bed once it’s up at rehearsal/performance levels. That’s when you want to make sure the power section is, as I say “holding together” and not washing out your painstakingly dialled in sound.

KT77s were really good for that in my Marshall, but I like the E34Ls even more (not EL34, it’s not a typo.). The sound stays tight, focused, present and I need to do little more than fine tune the presence and resonance knob for the space or venue. Whoever invented the resonance knob is a genius.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

81 with 18volts (now 24 because they have an adapter to put two 12v in which saves a lot of space in the cavity) is perfect for that. It’s quite meaty, not thin at all. People are raving about the Fluence but I’d sooner put them in a different guitar or get one that comes with them because it sounds perfect as is. I dropped a Black Winter into my Schecter V that came stock with a JB and it’s amazing.

The JB sounded pretty heavy, the DD was tighter but a bit thinner, but the BW is like Rita from Power Rangers used her grow wand on the JB and now I have to lay low for levelling the orphanage across the street after trying it out.

To be clear, I only recommended different power tubes if your tone is ideal at lowish volumes and them craps the bed once it’s up at rehearsal/performance levels. That’s when you want to make sure the power section is as I say “holding together” and not washing out your painstakingly dialled in sound.

KT77s were really good for that in my Marshall, but I like the E34Ls even more (not EL34, it’s not a typo.). The sound stays tight, focused, present and I need to do little more than fine tune the presence and resonance knob for the space or venue. Whoever invented the resonance knob is a genius.

I have a pretty bad predisposition against JJ E34L's because they destroyed my Peavey XXX. I later read it's because the earlier XXX's were underbuilt, but it left a real bad taste in my mouth.

Other than that, if I wanted a wide soudstage, I would've even have bothered with EL34-types in the XXX and just gone straight for 6L6's. Or 6CA7's if I had an amp which only runs on EL34 types.

And yeah. I have a similar taste as you. I've run EMG's like that in the past, but I prefer running them off 9V rechargeable batteries to be environmental-friendly, LOL. The EMG 81 used to be my go-to, except they changed the preamp slightly in the last few years, so they don't sound like they did back in the 2000's or so when I first tried them.

I LOVE Fluence Moderns because to me, these days, they do the EMG thing better than EMG's, LOL. But I still wouldn't say no to an older 81/60 combo.

The JB and the Black Winter are some of my favorite passives. The BW has a really cool and unique attack which I love. Have you tried the Gibson 500T? That's another one that I like a lot.

I go through phases, though, and I guess the hip fad that lower output pickups sound clearer and more dynamic under gain bit me. I don't care about dynamics at all. For me it's all fortissimo or death, LOL. And after adding the extra gain to compensate for the fact that they distort less, the clarity thing becomes irrelevant. But I do love how BRIGHT and attacky they get, and the fact that they're generally more scooped really suits me, because I HATE muddy stuffy low mids in excess, especially because I'm running a mid-heavy Les Paul most of the time, boost it using a TS-type pedal, and then run everything through an 8-ohm V30 IR, which puts all the mids back where they need to be.

 

[Top-L]

Does such a thing exists ? My main amp is Laney GH50L, kids these days wont consider it a high gain amp, but it does late 80s early 90s metal with out any pedals, the 1 1/2 channel allows you to really play around with different granularities of break up. So, now I have classic JJ's set for Laney's E34Ls, and ECC83s. I am fairly happy with it, but i wish i can have just a bit more responsiveness to pick dynamics, particularly on pick harmonics, i would like to have just a tiny bit less break up on double stops, a bit more of note separation on them, and a bit more saturation and pop when dig with the pick for a pick harmonic.

Have you tried a boss sd1? I briefly owned that amp. Veery loud! It was too much amp for me. From memory it didnt have that shreddy saturated sound i was seeking at the time.

With a sd1 you can use some pedal gain which will bring out harmonics, and turn down amp gain. Find a balance you like.

 

[El Dunco]

Nah, forget JJs, mine are Svetlana from a tube site that sells good condition, broken in tubes. The 6CA7s were too flabby. Lucky me, I use the older block letter script EMGs. Got em in 2005. I’m putting the finishing touches on a one pickup custom build kramersteen made the body for me. I’m putting an artec pre in there that lets you go mid humped (like the Strat Presence Control), scooped or flat with a boost where the tone knob would have gone. I could probably put any pickup in there. How does the 500T sound split or parallel?


The demos I’ve heard of the Nigel Securb posted are very impressive, the way it cleans up or dirties down based on your picking is really cool.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Nah, forget JJs, mine are Svetlana from a tube site that sells good condition, broken in tubes. The 6CA7s were too flabby. Lucky me, I use the older block letter script EMGs. Got em in 2005. I’m putting the finishing touches on a one pickup custom build kramersteen made the body for me. I’m putting an artec pre in there that lets you go mid humped (like the Strat Presence Control), scooped or flat with a boost where the tone knob would have gone. I could probably put any pickup in there. How does the 500T sound split or parallel?


The demos I’ve heard of the Nigel Securb posted are very impressive, the way it cleans up or dirties down based on your picking is really cool.

Svetlana as in Winged C or New Sensor?

No idea how the 500T splits, TBH. Never been into getting many sounds out of my pickups, LOL. Like I said, I'm a fortissimo or death kinda guy. I bet it'd split well, though. Pretty much anything in that range starts splitting decently as the coils and magnets are not anemic when split like a PAF-type.

 

[El Dunco]

Svetlana as in Winged C or New Sensor?

No idea how the 500T splits, TBH. Never been into getting many sounds out of my pickups, LOL. Like I said, I'm a fortissimo or death kinda guy. I bet it'd split well, though. Pretty much anything in that range starts splitting decently as the coils and magnets are not anemic when split like a PAF-type.

Nevermind! It really is to be a full metal machine anyway that looks absolutely badass on stage but the Jackson warrior body and custom neck are no slouches. One good passive bridge and this bad boy https://www.eyguitarmusic.com/Artec-...ume_p_776.html
and I can probably even tap into the power to put LEDs in the skull’s eyes to make them glow.

This may seem like a plug but it’s a great example of my recorded tone after the last 10 years and is a great case study in different amps and their pick attack/note definition properties. The Marshall forum certainly appreciated it. I’ll give timecodes for anyone who isn’t really into our music.

This is a cut off our first album. JB one dual rec into the matching cab, dual mic’d with the second guitarist running a more middy Marshall up the middle. I didn’t give it much thought beyond wanting a cross between Soul Of A New Machine and Justice. The breakdown at 3:35… phwar! Side note, I LOVE Sam’s snare sound on this album.

From our second with the Randall prototype into some Eminence Legends with the 18v early 2000s EMGs. To this day, I really like this tone. It basically sounded like this in the room and I feel I was onto something special.

Both of these so far, the leads were a Twin Reverb absolutely dimed.


This is a single from 2016, the first time I got into blending. It’s mostly the EMTY blackouts straight into the JVM with just a bit of low gain, crunch rectifier blended. This is when I got very particular about pick and note definition. You can really hear the raking of the dissonant muted chords in the chorus, every note in the heavy part of the first verse and every pick of the tremolo riffs from 2:00 onwards. The solo towards the end is all Marshall with a really cool mid/side miking technique that gives it the width and size I was after. That grinding bass sure helps it along too.

This is our most recent single that’s been the most popular and the rhythm tone is perfect. Almost too perfect. Lately for our newer stuff I use it as a core sound and blend more amps if I want extra size or sizzle but it works very well for the industrial sound with all the other stuff going on. It’s a Blackstar tube preamp into an ADA Microtube power amp blended with a bit of recto, a little more gain than the last one but dayum, check that pick attack at 3:20 onwards! Leads, again all Marshall.

 

[El Dunco]

And Winged C because I know editing my post to include that isn’t going to go well. KT-77s in the songs though.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Cool tones and music, man! The bass tone reminds me a lot of old-school Meshuggah. Overall, at parts, I'm reminded of old-school Meshuggah a lot.

Out of the three vids you posted, the first is my favorite because it's got the most bite.

 

[El Dunco]

Cool tones and music, man! The bass tone reminds me a lot of old-school Meshuggah. Overall, at parts, I'm reminded of old-school Meshuggah a lot.

Out of the three vids you posted, the first is my favorite because it's got the most bite.

B-but I posted four videos. Soundcloud obviously doesn’t work then. Thankyou though! Lately I’m going for that last tone with the bite of the first. The ever reliable Dual Rec. What it does, it does very well, though it does a whole lot more if you want it to. The other modes and goodies in the back aren’t just for show. Not many people seem to be aware.

You nailed the Meshuggah influence. I love their first three albums (plus the None EP) the most. I absolutely wore out Contradictions Collapse when a friend gave it to me.

There’s four including the soundcloud link if you can get it to work. I added the fourth in a way that will actually play if you want to check that out. It’s basically my crowning piece.

 

[Demanic]

Try putting a 12DW7 in the 1V spot. The first signal the amp will see will hit a 12AU7. Plenty of headroom and sensitivity there. Then it goes into a 12AX7 to bring the whole signal up to a decent power, but with the signal profile of the 12AU7. All before you get to V2.

 

[El Dunco]

Try putting a 12DW7 in the 1V spot. The first signal the amp will see will hit a 12AU7. Plenty of headroom and sensitivity there. Then it goes into a 12AX7 to bring the whole signal up to a decent power, but with the signal profile of the 12AU7. All before you get to V2.

I hear that one is like half a 12AX7, half 12AU7 right? This kind of thing seems to work very well for amps that already have more preamp gain than you could ever need.

I’m partial to the 5751 but might have to try the DW. The 5751 has 20% less gain than a 12AX7 but makes the gain on tap more useable. I credit that tube to the note clarity even on the especially dissonant arpeggiated chords at the 1:00 mark of “Repository” posted above.

Generally all the noise issues people complain about with the JVM disappear with the right tube choices and proper gain staging between level and master.

 

[Ascension]

Power tubes make a difference when you turn it up. E34Ls hold everything together the best for me. KT77s a close second. Otherwise, A/B recordings reveal not a lot of difference with the preamp in V1 with the exception of JJs not being very good with even chinese 12AX7s being better, the 5751 reigning in the preamp gain and the Russian 7025 being perfect because it’s got the exact amount of gain I want but is dead quiet if I’m not playing.

As far as actual timbre change, it’s almost imperceptible.

In some amps the tonal change and response can be extremely dramatic with a pre amp tube change. In others not so much all depends on the amp design. I understand that power tubes also make a real difference at times just not as much as pre amp tubes normally. One example would be my little Jet City 22H head. With the stock Sino Chinese EL 84's it was harsh and lackluster. However a fresh set of the New Sensor EL 84 Mullards really woke that amp up and brought it to life. In particular when you cranked the amp a little. Still the preamp tube combo I dropped in the amp was more dramatic tonal difference than the power tubes. It all matters in the combo. The wrong tube combo can turn a great amp into a toneless dog but the the right can turn a decent amp into a great one.

 

[Demanic]

I hear that one is like half a 12AX7, half 12AU7 right? This kind of thing seems to work very well for amps that already have more preamp gain than you could ever need.

I’m partial to the 5751 but might have to try the DW. The 5751 has 20% less gain than a 12AX7 but makes the gain on tap more useable. I credit that tube to the note clarity even on the especially dissonant arpeggiated chords at the 1:00 mark of “Repository” posted above.

Generally all the noise issues people complain about with the JVM disappear with the right tube choices and proper gain staging between level and master.

Depending on how it's wired, the 12AU7 could be first or second. I tend to think that 12AX7 into 12AU7 might not do the same thing.
In V1 the second half of the triode is going to push V2. Depending upon how it's wired.

 

[El Dunco]

Depending on how it's wired, the 12AU7 could be first or second. I tend to think that 12AX7 into 12AU7 might not do the same thing.
In V1 the second half of the triode is going to push V2. Depending upon how it's wired.

Interesting. Would be cool to have an amp build that’s based around that tube with a switch to change the order.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

A 12AU7 will not add headroom, nor will a 12DW7. It will just decrease the distortion on tap for the amp. But it will not make it louder, thus, not more headroom-y. Also, the resistance or impedance, I forget the correct term here, is different than from a 12AX7 the amp is designed to run. It will not hurt anything, but it will either make that position it's in either brighter or darker than it's supposed to. You may or may not like that.

You will get more pick sensitivity, true, but you can also get that from just lowering the gain knob. So yes, it will help. But there are other ways I'd personally use to achieve that.

However, it is not a suggestin to ignore. Try it. You may like it. After all, a 12DW7 is like what? 15 dollars?

 

[beaubrummels]

Depending on how it's wired, the 12AU7 could be first or second. I tend to think that 12AX7 into 12AU7 might not do the same thing.
In V1 the second half of the triode is going to push V2. Depending upon how it's wired.

I thought there was a complimentary tube, with a different designation which I can't remember now, that has the AU and AX sides reversed? I think JJ makes a reissue/reversed version?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I think the second triode of the 12AX7 is usually the input stage in V1, so I think that's what you may want.

 

[Demanic]

I thought there was a complimentary tube, with a different designation which I can't remember now, that has the AU and AX sides reversed? I think JJ makes a reissue/reversed version?

There is. In that case the first array that the signal from the pickups would hit would be the 12AX7 side. 100 on the power factor for amplification. Then it would hit the 12AU7 with a power factor of what, 20? So it's going to overdrive and compress a ton, more than likely. And then that signal feeds V2.
I've been thinking about this for a while. Yes, the 12AU7 has a lot less gain. That makes for a much more detailed initial voltage pattern. Now, pump that into a 12AX7 with 100 gain. You're not going to get the top and bottom super compressed because they hit the lower gain section first. Now you can hit the power section with a detailed signal, but still plenty of clarity and low end that's not farting out.