Multi-input interface suggestions?

[B2D]

My drummer and I are going to invest in a multi-input interface to record a demo. There's a lot of choices out there and we're having trouble deciding which one to use. We'd like no less than 10 mic inputs, though 12 would be ideal.

We were thinking about something along the line of the FireStudio by Presonus. Can anyone else recommend something like that which might work better for our purposes?

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

The FireStudios D/A is a steaming pile of crap, and the limiters on the pres are really quite bad.

You can't go wrong with 2xFirePod's for the price, but you're not going to find an interface with more than 8 mic pres without going for the Mackie Onyx 1200F (which absolutely kicks ass), but that's gonna run you close to 1600.

 

[B2D]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

The FireStudios D/A is a steaming pile of crap, and the limiters on the pres are really quite bad.

You can't go wrong with 2xFirePod's for the price, but you're not going to find an interface with more than 8 mic pres without going for the Mackie Onyx 1200F (which absolutely kicks ass), but that's gonna run you close to 1600.

Keeee-raaaaaap. Well at least I'll have Troy's funds to pool from as well, haha. You're talking about daisychaining 2 FirePods together, right?

Also... FireStudios vs. FirePods... what's the difference? IIRC didn't you invest in a Saffire unit?

I'll have to find another time to talk to you on AIM about this but just know you'll be credited for general Tech Support on this demo at the very least haha.

 

[supernosher]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

Firepods don't cut it.

Mackie Onyx with a firewire card would be the cheapest decent solution, I think.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Onyx1200F

OR

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Onyx1640/
but you'll need a Firewire I/O card for this one.


And I would buy it from Sweetwater, as they support their product more than most other internet companies.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

Firepods don't cut it.

:scratchch Yeah... right.


And yes, I mean daisy-chaining two FirePods together. The FireStudio has virtually the same preamps as the FP, but the D/A conversion on it is total crap compared to the FP, and the limiters kick in a bit earlier on the preamps.

I do run a Saffire PRO 26i/O, and while I dig it quite a bit, it still only has 8 onboard preamps. The AD/DA on the unit is excellent, and the pres are pretty much as good as it gets for onboard units under $1200 or so, and it has the ADAT option for streaming in another 8-16 channels via lightpipe.

The problem boils down, as usually, to who's using the gear. I honestly don't think you'd benefit at all from running a 1200F over 2 FirePods, and you'd save a whole hell of a lot going that route. In fact, you'd be MUCH better off buying a pair of FirePods and spending the money saved on a nice mic, pre, set of monitors, etc.

 

[supernosher]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

VK - they sound too thin, and at least, my bro's (who doesn't take care of his ****) is not reliable.

I mean I could get a fat sound out of it with some post-processing - I did a recording of his band with said firepod, and threw the Waves SSL channel on all the tracks, and it sounded good enough, but I don't like them.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

They sound thin? What kind of justification is that? Interfaces don't have their own inherent sound like a mic or pre has.

If you record something 'thin,' it'll sound thin after the fact. If you record it sounding 'thick,' the same theory applies.

Put it this way: if dudes like Dave Otero can do this with a pair of FirePods and 2 external pres... they're more than adequate.

Like I said, its more the user than the gear. I'm willing to bet that you had any number of things screwed up before hitting the FirePod, be it the room itself, instruments you were recording, mics you used, or -more importantly- how you placed those mics.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

Put it this way: if dudes like Dave Otero can do this with a pair of FirePods and 2 external pres... they're more than adequate.

Clean and crisp ... a wee bit scooped, but that's something that's pretty much dictated by the genre.

But, because you're such a pleasant guy, here's some more 'cannon fodder': I did everything on this page with a pair of FirePods and some crappy mics 2-3 years ago. Any 'thin'ness can be attributed to cheap Chinese mics.

I dug these recordings when they first came out, and I still do. You did a great job of giving each instrument tons of space without making them sound thin. Obviously MySpace has kicked the sample rate in the nuts, but I can still tell the quality is (was) there.

Nevermind my ass.

You piss me off, dude. No way around it.

But since you posted your ****, I'll post mine.

All done on a Firepod

Holy ... Where are the mids? Did you set off a weapon of mid destruction? If this were a book a la "Where's Waldo" entitled "Where's the Mids" I'd probably have given up, put it back on the shelf, and turned on the TV by now. You've stumped me. Basically, what I'm trying to say is this song is the Jimmy Hoffa of mids. If mids were money, this track would be asking the government for a bail-out. If I had to guess as to the technical problem with this song, I would say monitoring, maybe some really terrible mics, or maybe a freighter carrying 200 shipping containers full of mids sank off the coast of Indonesia. I would definitely not have guessed the interface, especially having heard the two above recordings.


I think what we've learned here is that you can make the Firepod sound great, or ... not that great.

 

[supernosher]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

ratherdashing, what are you listening on a Bose? My friend wants to know.

and I'm wondering if you can hear anything below 120Hz on your stereo.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

ratherdashing, what are you listening on a Bose? My friend wants to know.

and I'm wondering if you can hear anything below 120Hz on your stereo.

Oh yeah! That must be it. I must have somehow turned off my monitors and plugged in a set of Bose computer speakers just for your song. ****, that was dumb of me.

 

[B2D]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

:scratchch Yeah... right.


And yes, I mean daisy-chaining two FirePods together. The FireStudio has virtually the same preamps as the FP, but the D/A conversion on it is total crap compared to the FP, and the limiters kick in a bit earlier on the preamps.

Gotcha. Firepod > Firestudio

I do run a Saffire PRO 26i/O, and while I dig it quite a bit, it still only has 8 onboard preamps. The AD/DA on the unit is excellent, and the pres are pretty much as good as it gets for onboard units under $1200 or so, and it has the ADAT option for streaming in another 8-16 channels via lightpipe.

Can you daisy-chain those together two or is that a feature unique to the FirePod?

The problem boils down, as usually, to who's using the gear. I honestly don't think you'd benefit at all from running a 1200F over 2 FirePods, and you'd save a whole hell of a lot going that route. In fact, you'd be MUCH better off buying a pair of FirePods and spending the money saved on a nice mic, pre, set of monitors, etc.

Gotcha... that's comforting to hear actually. I'm sure the 1200F is an awesome unit but it's just too **** expensive right now. We'll see about one a year down the road when they show up on the used market.

Any suggestions for good outboard mic pres?

I did everything on this page with a pair of FirePods and some crappy mics 2-3 years ago. Any 'thin'ness can be attributed to cheap Chinese mics.

I think we pretty much got the best sounds on tape we could given the equipment we were using. Troy and I met up last night to talk about the next project and we're gonna rent a bunch of really good mics for this upcoming project. Not sure what to use on the toms but everything else we've got choices for.

I dug these recordings when they first came out, and I still do. You did a great job of giving each instrument tons of space without making them sound thin. Obviously MySpace has kicked the sample rate in the nuts, but I can still tell the quality is (was) there.

Jeff did a good job with that demo, and it sounds pretty good on a nice stereo. He really spent a lot of time getting things as good as they could've been, given somewhat limited gear we had to work with.

I think what we've learned here is that you can make the Firepod sound great, or ... not that great.

Which means if the next project I do sounds bad, it'll be MY fault and not the gear's.

 

[B2D]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

As far as that Saffire 26 unit goes... how does THIS compare? It looks like you CAN daisy chain these together, it didn't say anything about that on the Pro 26.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

With the 26 you can just run ADAT's so it's no biggie, but I believe you can daisy chain both. That said, the interface and software isn't quite as intuitive as the FirePod's... Focusrite has got some work to do in that dept!

The biggest problem with the 10, and the FirePod also shares this trait, is that it's really a closed-system. No ADAT = limited expandability. Sure you can daisy-chain all you want, but being able to run another units word clock and conversion into yours is a total godsend when getting more inputs and outputs! Despite that, I'd go with the FirePods over the 10, as they're much cheaper.

The Saffire Pro 40 that was just released also looks pretty cool - good feature set on that one. It's like a 10 with ADAT I/O, for $500. I'd probably go with the 26 over that one, as it's barely more expensive and has virtually the same features, which would lead me to believe they cut some corners in the Saffire 40.

As for external pre's... You've got a couple options. You can get an 8ch pre like the Focusrite Octopre LE, PreSonus Digimax FS, or for triggers/scratch tracks the cheapy Behringer ADA8000 (Surprisingly good conversion, just really crap pres!). You could also go for a 2ch pre and go stereo into the SPDIF - something like a pair of PreSonus Eureka's and the A/D card, or a DBX unit.

What's your budget though? That would help a ton!

 

[B2D]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

What's your budget though? That would help a ton!

As little as possible. :laugh2:

In all seriousness, we've got Troy's iMac G5 desktop to use, so we're gonna upgrade the RAM in that sucker and then go to town. We're going to buy the essentials (interface/pres, headphones, a few cables and stands) and rent the mics and borrow whatever we can. For bass I plan on using a stock Fender P-Bass and Russ' SWR Workingman combo going direct.

I think in the area of $1500 between the two of us is about what we planned on spending buying and renting gear.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

In that case, I'd check out eBay's dealer auctions... brand new, warranty'd, sealed items, for much less than new. I got my PRO 26 on there for $550, and there's one up there now for $450!

I'd grab one of those or an M-Audio 2626 for $500-$600, and snag a Digimax FS for around $500 in the same manner. Then, you'd have 16 mic inputs and $500 or so left over for rentals! I'd go that route rather than a FirePod pair and a nice external pre, for sure.

 

[B2D]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

I'll read up on those units, as I'm not familiar with them. Those can be run in tandem? Thanks as always.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

Yeah, via lightpipe from the Digimax to the other. Lightpipe (optical, toslink, just like in home theater systems) can carry up to 8 channels of audio.

 

[B2D]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

OK, I got Scott F to open this thread back up because there's lots of good info in here that I'm gonna need in the next few months, so play nice guys.

 

[B2D]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

Yeah, via lightpipe from the Digimax to the other. Lightpipe (optical, toslink, just like in home theater systems) can carry up to 8 channels of audio.

Excellent, I think we'll go with that.

You don't think there'll be any latency issues with this? We're going to be using Troy's desktop iMac and upgrading to 3 gigs of RAM so I don't think it'll be a problem but it's good to make sure.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Multi-input interface suggestions?

Consider what type/quality of A/D converters are in what you may purchase .
Motorola pioneered 24 bit audio recording,and are usually the best to use.
Also the "sound engine" in what software you use can make a big difference to the fidelity of your recordings.