Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to jack

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Alex so can i use last diagram and use white wire instead of green in that diagram. the silver is bare wire i think and rest is same.

There isn’t a split wire on 4-conductor pickups. You use all the wires connected correctly or you won’t get sound. You need to stop thinking about “which wire is the split wire” because that’s not how 4-conductor pickups work.

The GFS pickup has misled you a bit because it has two of the pickup wires soldered together under the pickup tape and that connected to a single wire coming out of the tape for splitting. But under the pickup tape, there’s still 4 wires total, a start and finish wire for each coil. You will not be able to do any more complicated wiring like JP wiring until you understand how all those wires work together. There isn’t “a split wire.”

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

I had to look up coil splitting vs coil tapping on youtube. Sorry if i'm asking noob questions but i'm a noob now. Yes i've taken apart neck pickup and there is 4 wires total. 2 blacks, white and red i think if i remember correctly.

According to GFS diagram i can coil tap, which does not interest me as i'm interested in splitting the coil for single coil not dropping the output of the coil. I guess i chose wrong pickups but for price it was right. I should have just went with 5 wire pickups but this is my first guitar so i don't wanna go all balls out, especially that GFS has been nicely reviewed everywhere.

I have Vintage 59s neck at 8.14k ohms for blues tones and Crunchy Pat (equivalent to Seymour Duncan Super Distortions) in bridge at 14.4k Ohms for rock and metal tones.

Either Kwikplugs or wiring length of the cables dropped resistance in neck to 8.0k Ohms and bridge to 14.0k ohms when measured at output jack. Not necessary a bad thing as those values are high anyway.

I'm curious how both pickups ON in middle switch position will sound like as outputs are SO MUCH different from each other?

I'm looking for my first amp also. Considering Monoprice 15 watt tube amp, Fender Blues Jr clone or Katana 50 but i think i'm going to go with tube amp. Any suggestions for first cheap good amp?

Thank you again for input and patience. Glad i was able to resolve this myself. I will still have luther do a nut and full setup but i wanted to do as much possible myself.

Anyone living in Chicago that can recommend good but cheap luther i would greatly appreciate it too.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

When you measure a pickup at the output jack, it will not be accurate, because you’re measuring it with everything else in the circuit.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

There isn’t “a split wire.”

Actually, the white wire in the GFS diagram IS the split wire. It is the equivalent to the red + white wires of a Duncan pup connected together. If that white wire is connected to ground it will split the pup.

 

[Chad]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

When you measure a pickup at the output jack, it will not be accurate, because you’re measuring it with everything else in the circuit.

It’s generally pretty close, though.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

I had to look up coil splitting vs coil tapping on youtube. Sorry if i'm asking noob questions but i'm a noob now. Yes i've taken apart neck pickup and there is 4 wires total. 2 blacks, white and red i think if i remember correctly.

According to GFS diagram i can coil tap, which does not interest me as i'm interested in splitting the coil for single coil

GFS is using the term "coil tap" incorrectly. They actually mean "coil SPLIT". A lot of people, including guitarists, manufacturers, and retailers use the terms incorrectly/interchangeably. But if you understand what each term means, you won't get confused.

not dropping the output of the coil.

Whether you "tap", "split", or wire the coils in parallel, your output WILL drop some.

I guess i chose wrong pickups but for price it was right. I should have just went with 5 wire pickups but this is my first guitar so i don't wanna go all balls out, especially that GFS has been nicely reviewed everywhere.

I wouldn't say you chose the "wrong" pickups. GFS pups are fine. I happen to love several of their pups that are actually very good sounding and quality (Mean 90, Dream 90, Dream 180, Surf 90).

Either Kwikplugs or wiring length of the cables dropped resistance in neck to 8.0k Ohms and bridge to 14.0k ohms when measured at output jack.

Just the opposite...adding cable length or the Kwikplugs (in series) will RAISE the resistance very slightly. Components added in parallel will lower resistance. In guitar wiring you have both conditions going on and it's not always accurate to measure resistance at the jack.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Actually, the white wire in the GFS diagram IS the split wire. It is the equivalent to the red + white wires of a Duncan pup connected together. If that white wire is connected to ground it will split the pup.

The bulk of my comment acknowledged that.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

I’m gonna be honest here. That wiring looks scary and appears to have at least one ground loop. Have you considered having the tech do the wiring job too? Looks like you bought good parts and are having other work done. Might be worth a few extra bucks to get it tip-top.

There can be no such thing as a ground loop in a low voltage DC circuit. It's one of the most incorrect oft-repeated guitar forum bits of nonsense.

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Actually, the white wire in the GFS diagram IS the split wire. It is the equivalent to the red + white wires of a Duncan pup connected together. If that white wire is connected to ground it will split the pup.

Awesome. Then i can use that Zanymus diagram for JP style coil splitting?

So i'm looking at both diagrams from @Zanymus and GFS and push/pull pots and green wire is going on pot to where GFS white wire is going. So when i pull the pot up i ground that white wire and put it in zero/ground position correct?

I just want to make sure that last diagram has worked for other people? Can somone @Zanymus for me so he can chime in here.

I can't do as i don't have enough posts here for it to work. I guess there is minimum amount before i can do that or Doc if you can look at the diagram if it seems correct?

Apparently according to this post S.D diagram has some "signal leakage" issue.

Signal leakage post
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?318937-Pickup-signal-leak-Please-help&p=4282700&viewfull=1#post4282700

Again i dunno. I'm just trying to choose correct diagram to go with.

I'm thinking of wiring all this outside the guitar. I have extra switch and jack anyway and then measure it ALL with mulitimeter before i drop it in guitar. That way if something doesn't work i don't do disable current setup.

2 Diagrams Zanymus vs GFS coil split. Both show same pot lug solder but white vs green cable. Since they're both coil splitting wires, i'm assuming i can interchange them. White in GFS = Green in Zanymus/S.D diagram?
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...cted-to-jack&p=4370124&viewfull=1#post4370124

Why is capacitor being grounded to the back of the pot? I'm assuming JP style wiring is 50s?, so shouldn't left leg of cap be soldered onto middle leg of the volume? Or is J.P still 50s wiring and it goes to different location do due schematics of push/pull pot?



Thank you everyone for help. Much appreciate it.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

So i'm looking at both diagrams from @Zanymus and GFS and push/pull pots and green wire is going on pot to where GFS white wire is going. So when i pull the pot up i ground that white wire and put it in zero/ground position correct?

The pots where the green wire goes in the Zanymus drawing are not splits, but phase reverse and pickups in series. The green wire is ground.

2 Diagrams Zanymus vs GFS coil split. Both show same pot lug solder but white vs green cable. Since they're both coil splitting wires, i'm assuming i can interchange them. White in GFS = Green in Zanymus/S.D diagram? [/B]

The green wire is ground. Those pots are phase reverse and pickups in series. The pots where the red wires go are handling the coil split. The red wire is equivalent to the GFS white wire.

Why is capacitor being grounded to the back of the pot?

Passive guitar tone is an RC network (a resistor and a capacitor), connected to ground. Doesn’t matter which is first, but they need to be in series and connected to ground. That diagram shows the resistor (the pot) before the capacitor, so the capacitor is connected to ground via the back of the pot.

I'm assuming JP style wiring is 50s?, so shouldn't left leg of cap be soldered onto middle leg of the volume? Or is J.P still 50s wiring and it goes to different location do due schematics of push/pull pot?

50’s wiring is the tone network connected to the middle lug of the volume. If the tone network cap is wired between the volume and tone pot, then the cap would be wired to the middle lug of the volume. If the tone pot is between the volume and the cap, then the tone pot needs to be connected to the middle lug of the volume for 50’s wiring.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

I was thinking of doing Jimmy Page wiring but that's not possible i think?

No, you can't do JP wiring. You need 4 wires AND the baseplate ground to do phase.

View attachment 101600

View attachment 101601

I'm assuming the green wire in this diagram is my white wire, the coil splitter wire?

No. Your white wire is the combination of the green and red wires.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Alex so can i use last diagram and use white wire instead of green in that diagram. the silver is bare wire i think and rest is same.

Short answer...no! It seems like you're not paying attention to what we have been telling you.

Really, if you son't even understand our explanations of how pickup wiring works, you need to study that until you thoroughly get it before proceeding (if you plan on doing any wiring yourself). Otherwise, you need to just take your guitar to a competent tech to have it wired.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

There can be no such thing as a ground loop in a low voltage DC circuit. It's one of the most incorrect oft-repeated guitar forum bits of nonsense.

^ this, 100%

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

The bulk of my comment acknowledged that.

Yes, you are correct.

So then, your entire post is essentially just repeating my previous post (#19 I think).

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

The bulk of my comment acknowledged that.

Yes, you are correct.

So then you are just repeating my former post.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Look, for your sake I'll be brutally honest with you...

The JP wiring is just way, WAY, WAY, WAY too complicated for you to even give a millisecond of thought to. Even a simple pickup split seems to be beyond your comprehension. I don't say this to be condescending or rude...these are just the facts. You need to realize that it takes years of study and lots of experience to get to the point of even understanding this wiring, and even longer before you can understand how to play an instrument with so many options.

Heck, many very experienced guitar players don't understand that wiring. Come to terms with the idea that you are learning, but it will be a long time until you can understand the complexities of wiring for series, split, parallel, 50's or modern wiring, dependent vs independent wiring, capacitor values and connections, etc. let alone phase. Be patient. It will come...gradually. A step at a time.

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Thank you Doc, beaubrummels and everyone for input. I much appreciate it! No offense taken and also please take no offense either. I'm trying to resolve a problem and seeking help and that's what forums are about i think.

The reason i want to have this wired IN now is cause the most expensive part of my build is labor and i want to have all this available to me even if i don't use it for a while. I'm a on a budget as well which also involves buying an amp.

Why. Because once i would have this wired i would give it luthier for nut job and full setup. I have tusq nut, locking grover tuners and rolling bridge with hex locks. This will not move anywhere with time. Once all this is setup I will probably not have to do a setup for another 10 years. The labor cost here is in my mind. This is also fun for me as hobby. One can always get a brake job at a shop but if one can do it himself why pay 4x more for it?
I'm pretty proud of what i've done to it already. All myself. The satisfaction of doing job yourself is very rewarding too.

The issue is missing green wire and every manufacturer doing their own wire coloring schemes. I can have this wired in under an hour with correct pickup, 5 wire pickup. I am certain of that. Unfortunately i made a mistake by not buying 4 wire conductor pickup hence i'm struggling to understand wiring schemes without 4 wires, 5 total. It's not hard to follow colors. Problems come up when wires are missing and everyone does their own coloring schemes.

According to Zanymus diagram he has accomplished JP style with 4 wires. The green wire is soldered onto exact spot where white wire goes on GFS diagram, so it looks like it's the coil splitter wire, which GFS website says it is.

Are you guys saying GFS is posting non working diagrams on their website? Are you guys saying Zanymus diagram is non working diagram. Mikus also did this. According to their posts it's working solution. Im confused.

GFS diagram matches every single connection to Zanymus diagram but they labeled white wire as spitting wire and he did green one? Process of deduction black is ground, bare/silver is shield ground, red is positive. One wire left!
That's green wire in question. Since GFS has labeled that wire spilt wire with process of deduction i have to assume green is splitting wire in Zanymus diagram?

I'm tempted to try Zanymus diagram BUT it's modern style and i want 50s style and im pretty sure JPs 50s style wiring with total 4 wires is not posted here. Other issue is JP had 50s wiring not modern so that in itself is not correct either. That's actually part of the problem and why i'm confused. Again 5 wires pickups ONLY going forward for me. JPs 50s style wiring here is completely different from modern here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS7YvCmop8Y I'm sure i can follow that with 5 wire pickup which i don't have hence my thread here.

Maybe i should just do two push/pull pots but problem is it's standard wiring and i want 50s with at least coil splitting but in that video it's completely different and color wiring schemes of different manufactures are making this into madness. As you see i'm comparing and paying attention to different wiring schemes as i have no green wire.

I have to think about this cause i'm not sure spending $100 per SD pickup now just to get that is worth it especially that i've already spent money on pickups and i dont have push/pull yet either. Labor of mine is free. Labor of luthier is very expensive and i'm sure 100% i can wire all this myself IF i would have 5 wire pickup with correctly labeled wires in diagram. Notice Zanymus did not label his diagram what his color wires are. I would honestly rather get Blues Jr clone amp for that money. Maybe if i came across used SD pickups on ebay for fraction of the price. I have to think about it.

I went for easy Kwikplug and i'm paying for it big time right now. That's the lesson i'm taking away from this. Always go for 5 wire pickups. You have more flexibility later on. Soldering is not an issue for me at all. I'm not sure what i was thinking when i chose the Kwikplug. Huge mistake of mine. Any clarification on my confusion and suggestions are much appreciated guys. Thank you again.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Yes, you are correct.

So then you are just repeating my former post.

The point I was trying to make, which is different and not covered by your post, is that 4-conductor pickups don’t have a single split wire. He kept repeating that the green wire in the drawings was equivalent to the white GFS wire, which it isn’t.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

According to Zanymus diagram he has accomplished JP style with 4 wires. The green wire is soldered onto exact spot where white wire goes on GFS diagram, so it looks like it's the coil splitter wire, which GFS website says it is.

This is incorrect. You need to learn to read a wiring diagram. The GFS diagram in post #18 only has coil splits and they are located on the TONE pots. The Zanymus diagram has phase reverse and pickups in series, IN ADDITION to coil splits. On the Zanymus drawing, the coil splits are on the VOLUME controls, not the tone controls (read the legend on the drawing itself), ergo the green wire on the Zanymus drawing absolutely is NOT going to the same location as the GFS drawing.

Are you guys saying GFS is posting non working diagrams on their website? Are you guys saying Zanymus diagram is non working diagram. Mikus also did this. According to their posts it's working solution. Im confused.

Not saying that at all. Both diagrams work, but they work DIFFERENTLY. On the GFS diagram, you only have coil splits and they are on the TONE pots. On the Zanymus diagram you have coil splits PLUS phase reverse PLUS pickups in series, AND the coil splits are on the VOLUME pots, NOT on the tone pots.

GFS diagram matches every single connection to Zanymus diagram but they labeled white wire as spitting wire and he did green one? Process of deduction black is ground, bare/silver is shield ground, red is positive. One wire left!
That's green wire in question. Since GFS has labeled that wire spilt wire with process of deduction i have to assume green is splitting wire in Zanymus diagram?

Your first sentence here is entirely incorrect. You have misread the diagrams and incorrectly deduced what the wires do. See my previous comments in the post.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

The fact that you say you are confused, even with some fairly simple concepts, and still don't get it after it has been explained to you several times by several different forum members leads me to tell you that you are in WAY over your head if you're thinking about even part of the JP wiring scheme. You will NOT be able to do it. Simple as that. You either need to resign yourself to doing a very basic wiring set up, or to take your guitar to a competent luthier to do the whole kit and kaboodle for you.