Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to jack

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

This is incorrect. You need to learn to read a wiring diagram. The GFS diagram in post #18 only has coil splits and they are located on the TONE pots. The Zanymus diagram has phase reverse and pickups in series, IN ADDITION to coil splits. On the Zanymus drawing, the coil splits are on the VOLUME controls, not the tone controls (read the legend on the drawing itself), ergo the green wire on the Zanymus drawing absolutely is NOT going to the same location as the GFS drawing.



Not saying that at all. Both diagrams work, but they work DIFFERENTLY. On the GFS diagram, you only have coil splits and they are on the TONE pots. On the Zanymus diagram you have coil splits PLUS phase reverse PLUS pickups in series, AND the coil splits are on the VOLUME pots, NOT on the tone pots.



Your first sentence here is entirely incorrect. You have misread the diagrams and incorrectly deduced what the wires do. See my previous comments in the post.

I think i'm starting to understand what you guys are saying. To simplify I can not do phase reverse and pickups in series as i do NOT have green wire which is not the split wire in Zanymus drawing?]

However i can do coil split in with white cable based on GFS drawing. If that is incorrect please let me know. Big question now.

Can i wire based on GFS diagram especially white wire in same location as in GFS diagram BUT BIG BUT with capacitors moved to location where 50s wiring would be or because the way pots are wired inside i should do what guy in youtube video did but with tone pots only.

I guess what i'm asking is if i can just add coil split BUT NOT WITH MODERN WIRING BUT WITH 50S which is NOT PICTURE IN GFS DIAGRAM, where caps are moved onto different legs of the pots?

The question is can i just move caps onto 50s style wiring and it's done deal then with push/pull white wire being where it is in GFS diagram or there will be more to do with wires itself?

Again thank you very much.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

I think i'm starting to understand what you guys are saying. To simplify I can not do phase reverse and pickups in series as i do NOT have green wire which is not the split wire in Zanymus drawing?]

However i can do coil split in with white cable based on GFS drawing. If that is incorrect please let me know. Big question now.

Can i wire based on GFS diagram especially white wire in same location as in GFS diagram BUT BIG BUT with capacitors moved to location where 50s wiring would be or because the way pots are wired inside i should do what guy in youtube video did but with tone pots only.

I guess what i'm asking is if i can just add coil split BUT NOT WITH MODERN WIRING BUT WITH 50S which is NOT PICTURE IN GFS DIAGRAM, where caps are moved onto different legs of the pots?

The question is can i just move caps onto 50s style wiring and it's done deal then with push/pull white wire being where it is in GFS diagram or there will be more to do with wires itself?

Again thank you very much.

I think I've already answered that.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

I think i'm starting to understand what you guys are saying. To simplify I can not do phase reverse and pickups in series as i do NOT have green wire which is not the split wire in Zanymus drawing?

Half correct. You cannot do full JP wiring because it appears your pickups do not have a separate bare ground wire and the coil finish wires are connected together as a single white wire which prevents wiring some of the full JP options.

However i can do coil split in with white cable based on GFS drawing. If that is incorrect please let me know. Big question now.

Yes, you can easily do the coil splits wiring it like the GFS drawing.

Can i wire based on GFS diagram especially white wire in same location as in GFS diagram BUT BIG BUT with capacitors moved to location where 50s wiring would be or because the way pots are wired inside i should do what guy in youtube video did but with tone pots only.

Not exactly, at least with the GFS drawing. The caps in the GFS drawing are between the pot and ground, so for 50’s wiring, you would be moving the little red jumper wire that is between the tone and volume pots and connect it to the middle lug of the volume pot, leaving the tone pot, caps and the rest of it as is. But, I just noticed a problem with the GFS drawing. The neck tone control doesn’t appear to be connected to the neck pickup at all.

I guess what i'm asking is if i can just add coil split BUT NOT WITH MODERN WIRING BUT WITH 50S which is NOT PICTURE IN GFS DIAGRAM, where caps are moved onto different legs of the pots?

Yes.

The question is can i just move caps onto 50s style wiring and it's done deal then with push/pull white wire being where it is in GFS diagram or there will be more to do with wires itself?

Again thank you very much.

Not with the GFS drawing. You wouldn’t be moving the caps. You would be moving the tone pot connector wire to the middle lug of the volume. And note that in the GFS drawing, the neck tone connector wire is missing, so you would have to add it for the tone to work at all.

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Thank you. I've used mspaint to draw the revision. Is this correct?

BTW i find odd that on the bottom pot cap is grounded to the pot where on top pot it's connected to first switch position. Is that correct?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Thank you. I've used mspaint to draw the revision. Is this correct?

BTW i find odd that on the bottom pot cap is grounded to the pot where on top pot it's connected to first switch position. Is that correct?

View attachment 101669

Looks correct for the 50’s wiring part. One more adjustment is needed, I believe. On the neck tone pot, the black jumper that’s going from the switch to the same middle tone pot lug where you added the new red wire; that black jumper wire should be moved to ground/back of the pot.

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Cool Thank you so much. I have made that change. Please check if my drawing is not faulty. Few questions though that puzzle me.

1. The bridge tone CAP is going to 1st switch position BUT Neck tone CAP is NOT going to 1st switch position on Neck POT but is being grounded to the POT? Isn't that suppose to be same/universal setup for both tone POTS?

2. BOTH tone POT left lugs (marked with black dot on them) are NOT suppose to be ground to the back of the pot. Just left the way they are?

3. Is that black jumper cable is grounding POTS then?

4. I would also ADD ground cable in C letter shape to ALL POTS, which then would run to bridge post cable ground? OR

5. Are all pots grounded now due to black jumper wires?



Thank you kindly again.

 

[beaubrummels]

Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to jack

1. The bridge tone CAP is going to 1st switch position BUT Neck tone CAP is NOT going to 1st switch position on Neck POT but is being grounded to the POT? Isn't that suppose to be same/universal setup for both tone POTS?

The bridge tone cap is going to the back of the pot to ground and the switch is also going to the back of the pot to ground, they just decided to connect them at the same grounding point on the back of the pot because they are conveniently near each other. The cap is NOT going to the switch. The cap and the switch are going to ground on the back of the pot.

2. BOTH tone POT left lugs (marked with black dot on them) are NOT suppose to be ground to the back of the pot. Just left the way they are?

Tone pots will have one lug unused, because ground takes place through the caps. In fact, on one or two of my Gibson guitars, they cut the unused tone lug off to decrease the chance of anything touching it.

3. Is that black jumper cable is grounding POTS then?

The back of the pot is being used as a ground. There should be a wire going from the back of all the pots to a common ground wire that eventually connects to the ground lug of the jack.

4. I would also ADD ground cable in C letter shape to ALL POTS, which then would run to bridge post cable ground? OR

I’m not following what you mean by c letter shape.

5. Are all pots grounded now due to black jumper wires?

Yes, there should be wires connecting all the backs of the pots to a common grounding point that then connects to a ground wire that is soldered to the ground lug of the jack.

In the GFS drawing, it looks like the neck volume pot is missing a ground wire from the back of the pot to the common ground point on the back of the bridge volume pot that then goes to the jack ground. So that drawing originally had two errors, it appears.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

You just need a ground wire from the back of "Vol 1" to the back of any other pot and you're good to go...all of the pots will be grounded to each other, the switch, and the output jack. No need for a "C" wire connecting the back of the pots, they will already be electrically connected. The ground wire from the bridge can connect to any of these grounding points that is convenient.

 

[Chad]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

There can be no such thing as a ground loop in a low voltage DC circuit. It's one of the most incorrect oft-repeated guitar forum bits of nonsense.

Thanks. I stand corrected. I guess Guitar Nuts and other places instilled that incorrect info in my head. I did further research into the area and learned of my error. This will make grounding even easier knowing that's not a worry. Good times.

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

The bridge tone cap is going to the back of the pot to ground and the switch is also going to the back of the pot to ground, they just decided to connect them at the same grounding point on the back of the pot because they are conveniently near each other. The cap is NOT going to the switch. The cap and the switch are going to ground on the back of the pot .

I meant shouldn't bridge tone cap wiring should match neck tone cap wiring? I'm referring to the yellow circles i drew below. The little black jump grounding cable is currently going to green circle but shouldn't it go to yellow circle where capacitor is at in neck location? Just like in bridge position? That is what i was asking?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

I meant shouldn't bridge tone cap wiring should match neck tone cap wiring? I'm referring to the yellow circles i drew below. The little black jump grounding cable is currently going to green circle but shouldn't it go to yellow circle where capacitor is at in neck location? Just like in bridge position? That is what i was asking?

The requirement is that they both go to ground. It is not required that they both go to ground the exact same way. Again, on the bridge side, they put the cap and the jumper to the same ground point on the back of the pot out of convenience, simply because they are right next to each other the way the drew the diagram. Yes you could make both the bridge and neck cap wiring identical if you want, but making them connect identically will not make any material difference in how they function electrically..

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

The requirement is that they both go to ground. It is not required that they both go to ground the exact same way. Again, on the bridge side, they put the cap and the jumper to the same ground point on the back of the pot out of convenience, simply because they are right next to each other the way the drew the diagram. Yes you could make both the bridge and neck cap wiring identical if you want, but making them connect identically will not make any material difference in how they function electrically..

Much oblige sir! I have added ground wire to ground pot vol 1 as it was not grounded as Doc said. Final drawing of GFS pickups 50s style wiring coil split.

I have ordered push/pull pots and will be wiring this soon. Much oblige everyone!

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Much oblige sir! I have added ground wire to ground pot vol 1 as it was not grounded as Doc said. Final drawing of GFS pickups 50s style wiring coil split.

I have ordered push/pull pots and will be wiring this soon. Much oblige everyone!

Um, you just created an error by moving only the black jumper and not the white wire with it. Those switches are actually two separate switches in one housing. There are 3 lugs in one side and 3 lugs for the other side and the sides are not connected to each other. You now need to move the neck white wire over to the same side of the switch as where you put the black jumper wire.

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Ah sorry about that. I see what you're saying. If this image is good to go i will wire it this way?

It just seem odd that birdge Cap is wired completely different then tone Cap?

Notice bridge Cap connects to switch position 1 and Neck tone Cap DOES NOT CONNECT to switch at all, but instead is grounded to pot. While Switch position #4 on tone pot connect to ground. I just want to make sure this part is correct?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Ah sorry about that. I see what you're saying. If this image is good to go i will wire it this way?

It just seem odd that birdge Cap is wired completely different then tone Cap?

Notice bridge Cap connects to switch position 1 and Neck tone Cap DOES NOT CONNECT to switch at all, but instead is grounded to pot. While Switch position #4 on tone pot connect to ground. I just want to make sure this part is correct?

This drawing should work fine.

The bridge cap is not wired completely different. They are both wired ELECTRICALLY the same - that is what counts.

And again, the bridge cap is NOT connected to the switch. It’s grounded to the back of the pot. The black jumper is also grounded to the back of the pot, they are both grounded to the back of the pot in the same location. The bridge cap is NOT going to the switch.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

Rango, you've GOT to start paying attention. And try to learn what we are trying to teach you. It seems that you just want the answers without trying to understand the theory. Heck, you don't even understand the questions that YOU are asking.

We are trying to help you. Please try to learn something. If the grounded end of either cap were instead connected to the negative lug on the output jack, would it be exactly the same (electrically)? Can you answer "WHY" or "WHY NOT"?

If you can, then we are making progress. If you can't answer why they are the same, after all the help and info we have given you, you should either just PLAY guitar and leave everything else to a luthier, or you should take a very basic electronics class where you can at least learn about continuity.

Sorry to be so blunt. But at this point I think it's the only thing you can understand. I wouldn't be this hard on you if you had just asked a question and didn't understand the answer so you asked again. Man, we've all been there. But over 50 posts of trying to get you to understand a simple concept over and over again, and it's still clearly not working, it's time to give it up or go to school.

 

[rango]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

THANK YOU EVERYONE. FINAL QUESTION PLEASE!?

So I've been curious!!!! and decided i will go down the rabbit hole to see what's out there. I've taken the GFS pickup apart. So there is red (positive?) and black (negative?) [ASSUMPTION] coming out of each coil. 4 wires woo hoo. 1 to go.

Now i've done continuity testing on kwikplug and the bare ground wire coming out Kwikplug plug is connected to pickup shield housing on the kwikplug housing which is soldiered onto housing therefore that is the GROUND AND FINAL 5TH WIRE so i think?

Now to create that mysterious 5th i think (please correct me if i wrong) but i need to soldier the bare/ground wire out of pickup housing and run it out as bare 5th wire therefor creating the 5th WIREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

YES?

If there is better spot to avoid short were would it be or is pickup shield ideal spot to originate pickup bare/ground wire from?

I will be wiring this according to SD diagram color scheme. How do i test with DMM which is the start coil wire and end coil wire IF in some weird case black is not ground and red is NOT hot/positive. That would super weird but i need to make sure cause as we know the wiring on later is precise.

Also when i when i ran continuity on red and black wire there was NONE? There shouldn't NO continuity between positive and negative correct? I think not but i would rather ask.

Does the coil of the pickup always start with POSITIVE and ends with NEGATIVE?

Thank you again for help.

GFS taken apart. 4 total wires.

DSC_0182 by Sefyu, on Flickr

Resitance test on single coil. 7.2k. Both coils are supposte to be 14k which equates.

DSC_0180 by Sefyu, on Flickr

Continuity tests between positive and negative wire

DSC_0181 by Sefyu, on Flickr

Back of pickup. No bare/ground wire anywhere i can see here!!! ???

DSC_0179 by Sefyu, on Flickr

The wring color scheme i will be going with

Capture by Sefyu, on Flickr

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

It wasn’t necessary to take it apart and turn it into a 4-conductor if you are only adding coil splits to the wiring scheme. The GFS pickups you have were assembled ready to handle coil splits quite easily with no further modification. But if you want to learn how it all works, breaking it all down and having to fix it back up is one way to learn it very well.

 

[Chad]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Multimeter shows pots resistance instead of pickup resistance when connected to j

WTH is going on in here!