Music theory question

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Re: Music theory question

Phantasmagoria said:
I'm mentioning things that (the gist of which) have been said in this thread.. can't remember who said what & it's not important..

And I think I've been very forthright in expressing my views about your ideas.
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Let me ask you plainly, then: I quickly sketched out a procedure regarding the way a minor observation about the use of diminished fifth intervals led to me to look at several other ways in which they could be used harmonically and melodically to produce different effects, an example you later quoted in an attempt to ridicule me. This shows me that you disagree, but not why and how, and neither does it make me or the other people reading much wiser. How could I, in your mind, make such an exercise more effective or musically useful in the future?
 
Re: Music theory question

Sirion said:
This shows me that you disagree, but not why and how, and neither does it make me or the other people reading much wiser.
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Don't really know if they want to be any wiser..it's entirely useless & unimportant. Chalk it up as a private joke that had very little to do with you per say..
 
Re: Music theory question

Phantasmagoria said:
Don't really know if they want to be any wiser..it's entirely useless & unimportant. Chalk it up as a private joke that had very little to do with you per say..
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All due respect but it is you that does not want to be wiser. You are probably the most closed minded person I have ever met.


If you really think that Vai, Petrucci, Malmsteem etc aren’t thinking of theoretical concepts when the write and improvise you are sorely mistaken. The vast majority of their solos are thought out and written. You know how I know? Because when you see them live they play it damn near exact. If you want to hear pure improvisation listen to Jimmy Page. You know how I know? Because every live performance is different...sometimes drastically so.
 
Re: Music theory question

I understand theory quite well, if I do say so myself. My dad started me on bass at age 8, and immediately stressed theory (head theory, though, nothing written until I learned to read sheet music much later). It has been a big part of my musical life, and it's probably the main reason that I can play so many instruments so [relatively] easily.

That said, it almost never consciously dictates my musical choices, i.e. composition, arrangement, or improvisation. That of it which is so ingrained that it's like breathing is obviously there underneath everything, but I pretty much never make a music decision based on intellectual thought. Everything is "sound based," if you will. I relate finger positions and patterns on an instrument to intervals/sounds. Trial and error has shown me what combinations and patterns of intervals and sounds have what effects. This has simply built up a sonic tool box over time, and my knowing what's in that tool box guides my movements on the instrument. Theoretical "thought" isn't really a part of it. Theory simply allows me to describe what I have just done to someone else. In other words, I don't "need" theory to compose exactly what I want to compose. I just use it to collaborate. When it comes to theory, I come in with it after something has already been written, and I use it to explain what I have just done...rather than it "telling me" what to do from the start.

This is the case with me. I don't think it's the case with everyone, though. It's very possible for theory to have different meanings and different uses to different musicians. Some people might find that it helps them develop their ear. Not me. I find that it simply helps me to explain what my ear already knows.
 
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Re: Music theory question

ItsaBass said:
I understand theory quite well, if I do say so myself. My dad started me on bass at age 8, and immediately stressed theory (head theory, though, nothing written). It has been a big part of my musical life, and it's probably the main reason that I can play so many instruments so [relatively] easily.

That said, it almost never consciously dictates my musical choices, i.e. composition, arrangement, or improvisation. That of it which is so ingrained that it's like breathing does, but I pretty much never make a music decision based on intellectual thought. I relate finger positions and patterns on an instrument to intervals/sounds. Trial and error has shown me what combinations and patterns of intervals and sounds have what effect. Theoretical "thought" isn't really a part of it. Theory simply allows me to describe what I have just done to someone else. In other words, I don't "need" theory to compose exactly what I want to compose. I just use it to collaborate.

This is the case with me. I don't think it's the case with everyone, though. It's very possible for theory to have different meanings and different uses to different musicians. Some people might find that it helps them develop their ear. Not me. I find that it simply helps me to explain what my ear already knows.
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That’s because it’s ingrained in you. Just like Vai, Pertrucci etc.
You had to drill it into yourself early on so that now you don’t have to think about it.
Maybe I worded it poorly earlier but that’s what I was driving at.

Phantasmagoria seems to think that these guys are just winging it and hoping for the best....like he does.
 
Re: Music theory question

Gtrjunior said:
All due respect but it is you that does not want to be wiser. You are probably the most closed minded person I have ever met.


If you really think that Vai, Petrucci, Malmsteem etc aren’t thinking of theoretical concepts when the write and improvise you are sorely mistaken. The vast majority of their solos are thought out and written. You know how I know? Because when you see them live they play it damn near exact. If you want to hear pure improvisation listen to Jimmy Page. You know how I know? Because every live performance is different...sometimes drastically so.
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I've heard/seen them play their solo's live as well..thanks to youtube anyone can. If you're hearing them sound damn near exact every time they play them someone's in need of some emergency ear training & it is'nt me :lmao:

Or maybe you're sorely mistaken..lol...ever stop to consider that possibility? 'cuz they have incredible theoretical knowledge likely means very little when they're up there on stage. There's a pretty good likelihood they will be using their familiarity with the fretboard (anyone can be familiar with the fretboard btw..you don't need to be a theory maestro) , ear & muscle memory 99 percent more than anything else ..kinda like what I do.

You're the close-minded one 'cause for some weird reason (this is like the third time you've lost your shirt about the exact same thing..which takes the whole "asked and answered" thing to a whole new level of absurdity) Why is it that you can't stand the fact that I have no need, desire or will to apply what I consider pointless theoretical hyperbole to my playing & am just fine/happy/thoroughly satisfied without it... :scratchch
 
Re: Music theory question

Gtrjunior said:
That’s because it’s ingrained in you. Just like Vai, Pertrucci etc.
You had to drill it into yourself early on so that now you don’t have to think about it.
Maybe I worded it poorly earlier but that’s what I was driving at.

Phantasmagoria seems to think that these guys are just winging it and hoping for the best....like he does.
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Looks like you've got a gift for knowing exactly what the situation is with everyone else & why better than they themselves do :laugh2:
 
Re: Music theory question

Gtrjunior said:
Those of us that try to learn theory could answer that.
Others might have to wing it, though.
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Some use theory, others play whatever without thinking it and best do a bit of both (imho). It's just a way of doing it.

I don't really get why you take it like personal offense if someone doesn't play by the rules you've set for your way of playing guitar.
 
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