Mute switch but no standby

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcovle3cSpM

He kinda sounds like the Monthy Python guys when they are playing women

Baked beans are off.

Instead of using the standby switch, I'm going to take a hammer and smash the power tubes every time I use the amp. That way, at least I won't be using a fake control, like a chump.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

I think there is a certain segment of the amp-making population that thinks a standby is still needed in tube amps. I wonder if they really think people won't buy their amps without it, or why they continue to invest in the money to put them in if they don't do anything. I am not sure, as I am no expert in tube amp building, but it is funny to me that they would continue to build them that way if they didn't need to.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

Old Valve Radios don't have a standby switch.
HiFi amps and surround sound amps usually have a delayed high voltage [around 80 Volts ] power up for the output transistors. You turn it on and a second or two later you hear a relay click over. No sound until it does. It's very similar to the standby process.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

Old Valve Radios don't have a standby switch.
HiFi amps and surround sound amps usually have a delayed high voltage [around 80 Volts ] power up for the output transistors. You turn it on and a second or two later you hear a relay click over. No sound until it does. It's very similar to the standby process.

More similar to a soft start

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

I think there is a certain segment of the amp-making population that thinks a standby is still needed in tube amps. I wonder if they really think people won't buy their amps without it, or why they continue to invest in the money to put them in if they don't do anything. I am not sure, as I am no expert in tube amp building, but it is funny to me that they would continue to build them that way if they didn't need to.

First that comes with two assumptions:

1) They don't know any better. Just because somebody runs a company, it doesn't mean they really know much. You may be surprised to know how many novice copy cat, paint by numbers builders run shop and do quite well.
2) even if they do, as the video states it's much, much cheaper to just put one in than it is to try and explain why one was never fitted. It has been so ingrained in music based tube culture over the course of 70 years that it is expected, it's even part of the cosmetic design. Even if it does nothing really to help tube life, it's cheap peace of mind to the user.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

Old Valve Radios don't have a standby switch.
HiFi amps and surround sound amps usually have a delayed high voltage [around 80 Volts ] power up for the output transistors. You turn it on and a second or two later you hear a relay click over. No sound until it does. It's very similar to the standby process.

Anything with a tube rectifier has a natural slow startup. As the heaters warm up in the rectifier, high voltage is gradually ramped up.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

First that comes with two assumptions:

1) They don't know any better. Just because somebody runs a company, it doesn't mean they really know much. You may be surprised to know how many novice copy cat, paint by numbers builders run shop and do quite well.
2) even if they do, as the video states it's much, much cheaper to just put one in than it is to try and explain why one was never fitted. It has been so ingrained in music based tube culture over the course of 70 years that it is expected, it's even part of the cosmetic design. Even if it does nothing really to help tube life, it's cheap peace of mind to the user.

In the current guitar culture, extensive electronic knowledge is not necessary. (As you know) Leo designed his first amps by using the suggested circuits provided by GE. There have been many successful tube amp designs to form the basis of any new amp company's design. Same with pedals, there are only so many ways to amplify, EQ and clip a guitar signal. Now, the important thing is the ears of the builder/tuner. As an example, I am more educated in electronics than Brian Wampler. Brian Wampler's ears (and business sense) is 100 x's mine, hence the reason he is a household name in the guitar world and literally no one has heard of me.

 

[dave74]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

From this troubleshooting video it does seem to be at least kind-of handy sometimes.




When I shut down does it hurt anything to flip it on standby first for just a second and then power off?
It doesn't make a pop when I do it like that, and it keeps me from forgetting to flip the standby switch later before turning it on again,,,,,,,,which I guess isn't really needed anyway lol.

I've read that flipping to standby for a few seconds (well maybe 10-15sec) before turning the power off actually drains some of the charge from the caps.
Is this true and is it a good thing or not,,,,,,,,or should I just flip the power off first so that the caps hold full voltage for better storage conditions?

Which way is better if you know it won't be played for months or years even,,,,???,,,,,hypothetically-speaking.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

More similar to a soft start

It is a soft start.

Most standby switches operate on the B+ High voltage feed to the power amp section [ output tubes ].

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

It is a soft start.

Most standby switches operate on the B+ High voltage feed to the power amp section [ output tubes ].

I'm well aware, and not all do.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

I'm well aware, and not all do.

I figured you should be.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

I've read that flipping to standby for a few seconds (well maybe 10-15sec) before turning the power off actually drains some of the charge from the caps.
Is this true and is it a good thing or not,,,,,,,,or should I just flip the power off first so that the caps hold full voltage for better storage conditions?

Which way is better if you know it won't be played for months or years even,,,,???,,,,,hypothetically-speaking.

It seldom ever does. And those caps can stay charged unless there is a discharge path to ground. Some amplifiers have this discharge path by default because there is often balancing resistors fitted across both the capacitor networks feeding the screens and plates. it is often the case a series combination of capacitors is used in both locations in order to meet the voltage requirements without exceeding the ratings that of a single capacitor, and these balancing resistors are used to ensure charge is distributed equally across both. They will also provide this discharge path to ground.

Whether you use a stand by switch or not has no bearing on weather or not the capacitors hold their charge if the amp is on or off for any period of time.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

I'm well aware, and not all do.

If designed right they shouldn't be on the b+ side anyway. Although some amps that use two phase rectification do so by lifting the hv secondary's CT, which can be equally problematic.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

In the current guitar culture, extensive electronic knowledge is not necessary. (As you know) Leo designed his first amps by using the suggested circuits provided by GE. There have been many successful tube amp designs to form the basis of any new amp company's design. Same with pedals, there are only so many ways to amplify, EQ and clip a guitar signal. Now, the important thing is the ears of the builder/tuner. As an example, I am more educated in electronics than Brian Wampler. Brian Wampler's ears (and business sense) is 100 x's mine, hence the reason he is a household name in the guitar world and literally no one has heard of me.

Trust me I'm well aware of this. And I'm not discrediting the worth of a keen business sense. You can be the Einstein or newton of music electronics, but none of that will be of any consequence if can't sell yourself or your products. Jim Marshall knew nothing of electronics, and Ken Bran/Bradly Craven barely knew enough to build the first jtm45 proto, it took both of them to execute that endeavor, but low and behild Marshall is the father of loud, one of the biggest names to ever enter the industry, and I'm just some dude Joey.

I do disagree a little bit on the need to repackage and that there are only so many ways. I honestly believe there are a ton of ways to be creative in the industry that have yet to be touched upon, especially in music electronics, so I don't believe that everything began and ended with either Leo or Jim.

And yes Leo licensed the western circuit from GE/western electric. It was what became the bassman, and subsequently the jtm45

 

[Mincer]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

It seems like a built in 'soft start' would be a better way of doing the same thing. I know many tube amps don't have a standby, but most do- my class A Blue Angel does, but if you were to just flip both switches on from a cold start, it would take about 30 seconds to get sound. I use the standby because it is there, but for people who didn't grow up with tube amps, it seems silly to keep fitting amps with them.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Mute switch but no standby

It seems like a built in 'soft start' would be a better way of doing the same thing. I know many tube amps don't have a standby, but most do- my class A Blue Angel does, but if you were to just flip both switches on from a cold start, it would take about 30 seconds to get sound. I use the standby because it is there, but for people who didn't grow up with tube amps, it seems silly to keep fitting amps with them.

It is, and some commercial amps try to have something similar, like the 90's Laney Line, although those still used a standby. A standby switch is also cheaper than a well designed soft start, so there is that as well. The argument also is that the Capacitors used in both the DC reservoir, and screens are slow enough to charge that the use of a standby switch is even more redundant, especially if the switch is placed in an ideal place like the AC side of the circuit.

On occasion I confess that I use the standby switch also, but mostly as a mute. I never use it to power the amp on or off.

As silly as it is, this is not going to go away anytime soon. The habit has gone on too long, and the user expectation is too high. I think if most amps advertised having a soft start instead of a standby switch, it would go over a lot smoother.