My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

SJ318

New member
Hi, To any who might be interested,
Here is my report, from 10 years of pickup and magnet hunting, of my two favorite pickups.
These pickups also sound the closest to the real PAF i owned, I'd say the Seth, exactly, with mag change.
!......SG '01-2 R.I. 7 pounds, medium thickness mahogany, bridge Antiquity, A4 mag 500K vol & tone, .022 cap
2......LesPaulJr., 7 pounds, medium thickness mahogany, bridge S.Lover, A4 mag 500K vol & tone, .022 cap
Both equal distance from saddles, Both equal distance from strings, slugs and screws; both w/finger on 12th fret.
Amp: Blues Jr. 3, Master 10, volume 3, reverb 2, bass 2, middle 5, treble 7. Very clean setting. No pre amp distortion.
Speaker: Celestion G12, '01, played hard in a closed back cabinet, in parallel with the stock speaker it came with, in it's standard open back configuration.
Antiquity reads 8.52. Seth Lover reads 8.50.
At this point I must say I have 4-5 Seth Lover Bridge pickups. They all read different: from 8.20-8.50 and all points in between. At random, it turns out the one in my LPJr. reads the highest. Totally random.
I only have 1 Antiquity, so by default, the only one I could use to measure. Both sets-strings: 9,11,15,24W,36,38.
I love A4 mags, they all came from AddictionFX, eBay, on the same day, same batch almost certainly.
1.....The S.Lover had a more clear, bell like quality to the single notes from the first fret to the 12th. overall the same clean sounding chords, notes very distinct and articulate within the chords being played. with chords played hard, think studio version of "All Right Now" by Free, Kossof. Single note break up when pushed or picked hard, and pleasing yet still bell like break up. Think BB King playing hard.
2.....The Antiquity had a fuller, softer sound on all chords, seemed to be a bigger or louder sounder, even though both pick ups measured almost on the dot the same. On single notes from the first fret to the 12th, they sounded a little softer, but still very crisp on top at the same time. On chords played hard, think Clapton's sound on opn G and E chords from "Spoonful" Cream, Wheels of fire. Notes were not quite as articulate on full chords, but pleasing to my ears just the same. When single notes picked hard, they had a little more break up, a little raspier sounding, think Jeff Beck on "Plynth" from Beck-Ola IIRC. I know Jeff Beck used a strat on a lot of Beck-Ola, but the reference is still good, still accurate.
I apologize if these references are from players in the late '60's early '70's, but it is what I grew up with and what I know. So to younger readers, if you have not heard these masterpieces, I urge you to. Great sounds, great riffs, genius on display for guys like me around 60 years old.
I also realize, that by changing the magnets, I have changed what they started out as. But, at the same time, By using A4 mags, I have equalized the pickups in a certain way, so what I am reporting on, is, with the magnets essentially out of the equation, the basic sound or "vibe of the original wind/sound of each pick up is what I am hearing as differences. And they do respond differently anyway. So in a way, maybe this is helpful, as there are a lot of mag swappers these days.
I believe if these pickups were played in a large venue, with a 50 watt Marshall or similar, I might be drawn to one or another more definitively. But at lower room and very small venues, I would, for myself, choose the Seth Lover, once again, you guessed it, for it's bell like quality at these levels.
If you have got this far, thanks for reading. I must say, I will still be bugging everyone on all sorts of related questions, because I am a GUITAR PLAYER. It is in my DNA. So while I have personally arrived at my destination, I still want to explore the territory I landed on.
Thanks to you all, could not have found these wonderful pickups by myself, also the magnets!
Steven J. Buffington
 
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Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Nice write up. Thanks. I needed that. I haven't done any swaps yet. I'm playing everything stock. Seths still a fave even with the A2s for me. Sound like Bluesbreaker Clapton, no matter what guitar I put them in. One of my todo items is try '59s with A3/A4 and/or Seths with A3/A4. This write up helps.
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Thank you Steven, that has helped a lot seriously.
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Thank you guys,
I thought the first response would be what my dad always said, in fact it was the ONLY thing he ever said-"You don't know what the hell you're talking about!". He used it on my mom, also.
SJ
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Hey Steve,
Thanks for doing that comparison. Very good info to have, and the comparison between those particular pups is something that I have been curious about for awhile.

Sorry to hear about the demeaning treatment from your father. But you turned out great in spite of it. God bless you.
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Guitardoc,
I can't not respond to that. Thank you for saying that.
On the pick ups, someone just mentioned in a new thread, about the Antiquity being "dark" and I am not sure whether it goes to HBUCKER or SCOILS but it does fit w/my over all feeling on the antiquity in general, I guess. I think that while you can wind anything with any magnet, as the pearly gates being so hot and high end sounding proves with an A2 for a mag. The de-gaussed A2must be responsible for the whole "dark" impression thing. I guess any de-gaussed mag might do that, come to think of it.
I couldn't take that Antiq. A2 out fast enough. But I know I am in the minority and getting something out of it that it was not was not intended for. Love it now, though!
SJ
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

The de-gaussed A2must be responsible for the whole "dark" impression thing
IME, de-gaussing a magnet (up to 20%), has the same effect of augmenting the distance between p'up and the strings, which is reducing the lows, making the highs more audible. This effect can be heard in a comparison between the stock, anniversary and antiquity version of the same p'up, present somewhere in the Duncan site and/or You Tube. It's subtle, but audible nonetheless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKce3azLgGw

When I got my first set of Ants, I was surprised of NOT hearing what a lot of people said 'bout being dark, specially the bridge p'up. And I was also surprised to hear more lows than highs once I've zapped-recharged the original, dun-aged mags to their magnetic saturation.

Then trying'em with UOA5s and A4s brang back the desired clarity to the table... I sold the A4-modded set when I got my ECP RD-59 Hybrid (A4) set, I still have the UOA5-modded set in my backup guitar, a 335 copy with a mahogany neck and maple body.

HTH,
 
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Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Lt. Pepe,
I trust your ear. You make guitars, for god's sake. And, as your fan, I trust you. Maybe what sounds dark to me or others is the more "diffused" sound or the slugs picking up as much sound a the screw coil. Maybe a degaussed mag sounds distorted a little? Hence a little darker?
What you say makes sense but that sound some of us hear as "dark" could be us hearing other frequencies that give a dark " impression". I am running out of (") marks so I guess I'll leave it at that. On the other hand:
I suppose as the degaussed mag is 20% less sound maybe we are all raising the pups for more volume and without realizing it we are lowering the screws and raising the slugs to do so. That could be the culprit. If not, I believe I deserve a star for theory effort. Maybe just an atta boy would do.
SJ
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

You make guitars, for god's sake.
Steve, actually, I don't MAKE guitars.

I moonlight as a guitar tech, doing light repair work, setup and rig fine-tuning. My area of expertise is the confection and installing of custom-made harnesses in semi- and full- hollow guitars, a job that nobody else enjoys to do in my neck of woods, with the carefully selected modded p'ups to tonally-match a requested tone-footprint.



This is just one sample of my work, a strat pickguard with Stew Mac's Golden Age p'ups, Orange Drop cap, CTS TVT pots, CLR switch and Switchcraft jack, with a vintage, shielded output wire.

That's what I do, plus I sell alnico magnets for humbucker p'ups for the european p'up modding, DYI market, a small niche market I'm trying to develop.

HTH,
 
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Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Plenty of us on this forum assemble guitars from parts but, in my opinion, this is a lower skill level than applying cutting tools to wood blanks.

Another thing that, over the years, some of us do is listen attentively to numerous permutations of pickups in particular guitar types. After a while, it is possible to have a rough idea of what is likely to blend well with what.

Partly as a result of reading Pepe's perpetual enthusiasm for A4 bar magnets, I elected to purchase a Tonerider humbucker featuring that blend. It corrected exactly what I dislike about stock SD SH-1n '59 pickups. Next move, I bought some A4 magnets to try in SH-1n pickups. Result - happy 'fingers.
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Steve, actually, I don't MAKE guitars.

I moonlight as a guitar tech, doing light repair work, setup and rig fine-tuning. My area of expertise is the confection and installing of custom-made harnesses in semi- and full- hollow guitars, a job that nobody else enjoys to do in my neck of woods, with the carefully selected modded p'ups to tonally-match a requested tone-footprint.



This is just one sample of my work, a strat pickguard with Stew Mac's Golden Age p'ups, Orange Drop cap, CTS TVT pots, CLR switch and Switchcraft jack, with a vintage, shielded output wire.

That's what I do, plus I sell alnico magnets for humbucker p'ups for the european p'up modding, DYI market, a small niche market I'm trying to develop.

HTH,

Can't get a much cleaner/better looking result than that! Kudos.

Great work, Pepe.
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Pepe, Funkfingers, Guitardoc,
All you guys, thanks for chiming in. Pepe, I was sure you actually put metal to wood, but only because over the last however many years I have been reading, you pop out as one of the most knowledgeable folks on this forum and all the knowledge that you come forth with made me assume you made made them from whole cloth.
By the way, that really is a clean looking piece of work you show there.
Also, it is gratifying to know you and Funkfingers along with some others ARE IN FACT supporters of A4 magnets. Somehow I got the impression I was more alone in that regard. Seems I assume a lot! This is where I get to claim old age as the culprit and not my lack of attention, as I really do look up to you guys, you long term, knowledge filled forum members, and yes you DO know who you are.
I might just try an A4 in my neck SH-2 Jazz not because it doesn't have enough highs, but I think with that wind an A4 might give it a little more grit with it's top end. No harm trying.
Well, thanks again, I will leave you with my first ever re-fret. Just got the frets out, gonna sand it flat, use highest widest frets, make a fret hammer, (don't ask) and finnish it with a 20 radius block hand sander, flatten the top with the strings on, then use the fret edge file (rounder?) that you guys recommended, taper the edges, re-string, look for bad spots, but I think and hope I am up to the job.
I am tired of scalloping the fretboard just so I can get more strings under my fingers and not drag on the wood. Wish me luck. I will need it. Looking forward to the challenge.
SJ
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Cool beans. The Seth Lover is one of my favorite all-time pickups. Distorted chords ring true and the clean chime is fantastic.

Also, the A2 magnet is my favorite magnet. "squishy" is the guitarist term, I believe.
 
Re: My Report, if interested: S.LOVER vs.ANTIQUITY All things VERY equal

Hey LLL,
That is so cool that what most folks Don't like about A2 is their "squishiness" is exactly what you like about them. Plus you said "cool beans" - your post is an instant classic!
Cool Beans- YES! cool beans I think was last heard in the '60's and I can't help but remark as someone used cool beans in a Facebook post today, don't know the guy, must be you under your real name.
SJ
 
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