My Strat needs more Low End

jazzems5150

jazzems5150

New member
I'm looking for a set of strat pickups that can bring more fullness to my strat. I switched the Fat 50s out for 2 SSL-1s and an SSL-5, and they're too thin sounding, and did the opposite of what I wanted. I'm looking for fullness, I still want strat tone, but I want it to sound really full while still having clarity and strat tone. I've found that the tone I want would be better to get from 60s styled strat pickups instead of 50s style. I still want quack in the 2 and 4 positions, I'm really missing the distinct quack of the 2 position the Fat 50s gave. I want a similar sound but I'm thinking more Hendrix strat tone. I don't really care much about a RW/RP middle, I don't use enough to distortion with this guitar for it to matter, although I would prefer hum canceling in 2 and 4.

My strat has a really light alder body and a maple fret board. The mid range and high frequencies are very prominent in it. I'm playing through a Peavey Valveking, using the amp's unboosted distortion and a Fulltone OCD.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

I get the feeling that the pickups aren't the problem here. Fat 50's and the ssl 5/1 combo should give you a great classic strat tone. I've had both and through my setup I would call neither thin. Have you played with the amp first to try and eq the frequencies you want into the mix??

The second issue is that the Hendrix era strats had thinner toned low wind pickups. Great for The Wind Cries Mary etc. If you want fat then going toward that direction with pickups will be a bad move.

I'm almost thinking that an A2 pickup would be the go.

Pedals: Not sure on the OCD tone....folks have a love/hate relationship with it. The Way Huge Green Rhino with its adjustable low/mids boost might be just the ticket....that or the addition of an eq.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

General tips:
Raise your action a little. Get heavier strings. Lower the pickups a little. Turn down the treble. Reduce the gain and increase the master.

Specific tips:

Which model valveking is it? High gain amps and high gain channels trim off a lot of bass so they dont get mushy. WHen you think of all the famous strat platers who would be considered to have a fat tone, very few of them used high gain amps - most use big sounding cleaner amps like fenders or old non master volume marshalls that were cranked up. High gain with a strat pretty much equates to thin buzzy tone. There are ways of getting old skool amps to sound big at lower volumes, and it usually involves carefully choosing your overdrive/fuzz to get the sound you are after.You might find it better to use the clean channel and use the LP setting on your ocd - or possibly something different altogether like a green rhino for example where you can add as much 100hz as you like. Personally i like fuzz faces because of the big bottom end, but everyone has their own flavour of dirt that they like. OCD's are really cool tho and when ive used one thru my twin it sounded huge, so i doubt that is the problem.

Maple fingerboards are naturally bright and cutting rather than warm and deep.

Non rw-rp middle pups will give you a fatter tone in 2 and 4, but you will lose the quack. I prefer non rw-rp but its personal preference.

Vintage style strat trems also dont do a lot for your low end. It might serve you to look into something with big chunky saddles and possibly a different bridge block.

Is it an actual USA fender strat we are talking about? There is alder and there is alder. Is the wood solid or is it multiple pieces? There is a reason USA strats cost more than mexican ones (for example) and its not just where they are made - good sounding tonewoods cost more and generally companies keep the good stuff for the higher end models.

I have ssl1s in my strat. Compared to the 7 otehr sets ive had in the guitar since 1991 id say they can do exactly what you are after...i think the problem probably lies in 1: your amp and 2: possibly the rest of the components that make up your guitar. 3: possibly a different source of dirt.

Generally when people are not getting the tone they crave it is usually the big picture stuff (i.e. amp and guitar) rather than details like pickups. Pickups are more for fine tuning whats already there, they are not a solution for a complete tone makeover.

Hope some of this helps.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

Late 60's style Strat pickups tended to be wound in such a way that they had less midrange but a bigger/bolder lo end...I don't know that I'd personally call it fuller but there are more lows and clearer/sweeter highs.

Ritchie Blackmore, Jimi Hendrix, John Mayer...those are just a few names that use these style pickups.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

A first solution would be to use "hotter" pickups with a higher inductance.

A second (and cheaper) solution is to "tune" the PU of your Strat thanks to the capacitance of the cable used. That's what Hendrix or SRV did.

See here for further explanations: http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2010/Aug/The_Vintage_Coiled_Cable_Simulator_Mod.aspx

Also, let me quote Bill Lawrence:

"High-capacitance cables shift the resonance towards the lower frequencies which dramatically alters tone. For example, Jimi Hendrix used a coiled cord with 3,000 picofarads (.003 microfarads), shifting the resonance below 2,000 Hertz on his Strats. This was the secret of Jimi's tone. Shifting the resonance frequency at 2,000 Hertz has a similar effect to a midrange boost. However, when he recorded and needed a typical Strat sound for some tracks, Jimi switched to a short, low-capacitance cable. "

That's a parm that I extensively use to set the sound of my Strats (and other guitars) for more than ten years. Before to know it, I was constantly changing my pickups without finding the tone that I wanted...
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

I found the ssls pretty meh. I much prefer the Fat50s.

Fralin Blues specials with a bassplate on the bridge will do exactly what you are asking and are much more lively and detailed than the ssls, or the fender offerings.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

weird, JeffB-- I felt the opposite, that the Fat50's were just kinda ehh and the SSL-1's were great. Both were bright, but the SSL-1's sounded fuller to me.

to the OP, is your trem blocked/decked, or is it floating? To me, this makes a difference in the low end.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

I'm was in a somewhat similar position as you. Fairly bright alder strat with maple fret board and pretty strong upper mids with lacking bass. As was mentioned, blocking the trem did increase bass, yet it was just a mionor increase, not a huge difference in my case, but just enough where I'm happy with it. Not sure how much you're lacking.

My ferraglide saddles, which are blocky stainless steel, arrive next week, so I'll know then what impact those will have. I'm installing schaller locking tuners at the same time, so that may distort which is responsible for any changes.

I recently installed a dimarzio area 58 in the middle and 67 in the neck and really like these. Quack is strong oin 2/4. Although it's my 3rd strat (first MIM), I'm not really a strat guy or expert and I'm still learning the differences in 50's, 60's, texas blues, etc, etc, but, in case for whatever reason you start considering the areas line, they worked out great for me, despite their specs of higher treble, scooped mids, and moderate bass. I'm running 250k pots and .022 tone cap. Bass attack is sweet and just full enough, treble can be dialed down with the tone knob without over browning it out, and the scooped mids specs tames the naturally high mids of the guitar. And overall I think they're still full, but my amps are pretty thick and my definition of full may be different than yours. I'm sure they're fuller singles out there, but that may take you out of the 60's tone you mentioned.

Also, these areas, by design, are seriously quiet and, so far, have been much quieter than any bucker I've put in there yet.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

gibson175 said:
dont forget speakers too:
http://ultimate-guitar-valveking.wikispaces.com/Speaker+Change+Information
Click to expand...

Yeah, good point. I'm running two swamp thangs in separate extra large cabs, so, with thick amps, I've got a pretty thick setup.

But even with this the Dimarzio areas, while full enough for me, and this guitar overall, are still pretty clear and bright; just rounded and I'd say decently full given everything. I wanted a bright strat and got it. Now I'm just taming it to tolerance.

And the 58 & 67 are pretty low output. They handle low to medium gain pretty well, not so great with high gain (that's what the bucker is for in my case), and they sound more like 60's surfer type pups than smoky thick blue pups. And that's really what I was after.

I know nothing about his amp, so that and anything else different in his setup and tastes needs to be considered. Not trying to mislead him at all; just throwing out my experience with the trem block and the areas, in case he considers them, in a bright strat.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

In your case a steel trem block is a must. The zinc stuff always pushes the mids, or lacks highs and lows.

How is your trem set up?

You might be a rare case of a Quarter-Pounder being a good thing, but it's tricky. Or maybe a baseplate? Cheap thing to try.

An EQ pedal might be a stupid-and-works solution. Boss GE-7 for $50 or so and problem solved.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

uOpt said:
In your case a steel trem block is a must. The zinc stuff always pushes the mids, or lacks highs and lows.
Click to expand...

Does that apply in a blocked setup as well, where two hard wood blocks are used, one on each side the trem block? Completely solid contact between all parts of the trem block and cavity walls, with zero trem block movement. Mine's a 2012 MIM. Are they zinc or steel? I thought the later MIMs used the same blocks as MIAs, but not sure.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

gvis said:
Does that apply in a blocked setup as well, where two hard wood blocks are used, one on each side the trem block?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. But don't overestimate the difference. The steel block sounds different but like most things it isn't earth moving.

Completely solid contact between all parts of the trem block and cavity walls, with zero trem block movement. Mine's a 2012 MIM. Are they zinc or steel? I thought the later MIMs used the same blocks as MIAs, but not sure.
Click to expand...

I don't think the MIM are steel and in any case the MIAs aren't supposed to be the best either. I think you can pick up a steel block for a MIM from guitarfetisch for $20 or so.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm playing a 2012 American Std. Strat, and the trem is floating about 1/8 inch above the body through my Valveking 212. I did cut the treble frequencies a bit compared to before, but I couldn't find a spot that I liked. The SSL-1s are sounding pretty bland through my set up right now which is why I'm looking for new pickups. The Fat 50s sort of did what I wanted, but the neck position was the only one I found usable for what I play(and I kind of screwed myself by putting them on ebay.)
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

Well, decking it will help quite a bit but of course then you might not be able to use it the way you want.

Did you clean out the neck pocket from stickers and other goo?
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

Does your vibrato block look like this?

american standard block.jpg

That's an American Standard Tremolo block and it's smaller and lighter than a vintage '62 style block.

I've always felt that a small block gave a Strat a tone lacking in depth and bass compared to a tremolo with a full size steel block.

IMO, a full size steel block would help a lot.

Of course there are other things that would help - a better amp perhaps? And some playing chops if you're a beginner. Not saying you are (how would I know? :) ) but beginners do usually get a weak tone for a few years until they get their chops together.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

You should try other strats with your amp to see if its just this particular guitar, or amp, or touch related. Try it vs a vintage re-issue strat with a the big steel block.
 
Re: My Strat needs more Low End

I think it really might be either your amp or your pups. You may not like the way the bass is EQed and sounds on your amp or you need a Single coil with a lil more bass or a beefed up Single coil. The Five-Two or Quarter pounder might be up your alley. Ive always wanted to try the Five-Two but don't have a guitar to use it in now because my strat was stolen.
 
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