NAD! (Finally...)

[misterwhizzy]

After a three month wait, I finally got the Origin 50 head that's been on order to replace a badly damaged one I received in November. It's been here about a week, but I wanted some time to play through it before rendering any kind of judgment.


Classic Marshall look, classic Marshall sound. Dialing in everything at noon was ear-piercingly bright at first, and the gain knob at noon wasn't enough. I think the mid-output level is plenty to keep up with a drummer, and the only difference I notice is a bit less bass thump and a very slight volume drop. It's got that classic rock crunch all by itself, although it does take a bit of volume to get there.


Here's the rig now. The cabinet has a pair of WGS Green Berets, and the Les Paul has a stock Custom paired with an RCA3 59n.

I don't typically think of Marshalls as being pedal platforms, but this one definitely is. The Green Rhino is definitely able to push it into higher gain territory, say Rust In Peace-era Megadeth, and my Klone gives it the "more" of its natural breakup. Adding a Carbon Copy in the effects loop gives it more body. I prefer the pedals as boosts to the built-in gain boost, mainly because they're tweakable. The onboard boost doesn't add much gain except at lower gain levels.

All in all, I love it, and it rocks. Plus, it says "Marshall" on the front.

 

[Top-L]

Awesome. Is it like an import version of a JCM800?

 

[Open lane]

I have the combo version and love it.

 

[Ewizard]

The Origin 50 is a weird one from a marketing standpoint. It is a mix of tube and solid-state circuitry that is reminiscent of some Marshall topologies. Not a JCM-800 circuit, but almost more like the MojoTone 18W TMB with an added FX loop and a boost circuit. I say weird because it has no ( as in ZERO ) circuit relation that you could say was an Origin for Marshall amplifiers. I think that the marketing twist they have is that the price point for this amp will make it the Origin for most beginners and intermediate players to get a real Marshall amplifier.

It is a cool amp for sure, as it does cover a lot of ground with minimal controls. It is made in China, or at least in some other country similar to China, which is what brings the cost down. When they work, they work great, but there is a fair amount of solid-state items in there that when they fail, they fail in a less than helpful way. Psionic Audio has a repair video ( on Your Tube ) that he does on an Origin 20 and explains in some more detail.

Congrats on your new amp and have fun rocking out!

 

[misterwhizzy]

For someone like me, the lack of extra controls is a bonus. I’m not tempted to keep turning knobs. I got a sound I like pretty quickly, and I don’t feel the need to do anything but play the guitar.

There were two main reasons I bought the amp. First was the DSL20HR I had for a day sounded absolutely horrible. Secondly, the Origin is marketed as having Plexi tones at a lower price point and playing very well with pedals. That’s exactly what I hear it doing.

 

[Top-L]

The Origin 50 is a weird one from a marketing standpoint. It is a mix of tube and solid-state circuitry that is reminiscent of some Marshall topologies. Not a JCM-800 circuit, but almost more like the MojoTone 18W TMB with an added FX loop and a boost circuit. I say weird because it has no ( as in ZERO ) circuit relation that you could say was an Origin for Marshall amplifiers. I think that the marketing twist they have is that the price point for this amp will make it the Origin for most beginners and intermediate players to get a real Marshall amplifier.

It is a cool amp for sure, as it does cover a lot of ground with minimal controls. It is made in China, or at least in some other country similar to China, which is what brings the cost down. When they work, they work great, but there is a fair amount of solid-state items in there that when they fail, they fail in a less than helpful way. Psionic Audio has a repair video ( on Your Tube ) that he does on an Origin 20 and explains in some more detail.

Congrats on your new amp and have fun rocking out!

Marshall needed a product like this. Bigger than a lunchbox, with real EL34 tubes. Loud enough to gig. Inexpensive. Pedal platform.

If I was shopping amps, I would get this and use it 4cm. With all the digital extremities, an amp doesn't really need tons of features/channels.

My primary considerations: How good is the FX loop? Can it be biased by end user?

 

[Top-L]

Also, how much clean headroom does it have?

If you run a clean preamp into the power section, how loud can it get before it starts to distort?

 

[misterwhizzy]

Yes, it's made in Vietnam, not China. I don't equate country of origin to quality, but I also wouldn't say these are exceptionally well-made.


Exhibit A, your honor, from the head I had replaced. The headshell is some kind of MDF or something, and I think actual solid wood would add a lot of durability and not a lot of cost.

 

[Open lane]

Also, how much clean headroom does it have?

If you run a clean preamp into the power section, how loud can it get before it starts to distort?

Honestly, not much at all on the lowest wattage mode. I find myself adjusting the vol on my guitar to get clean sounds there.

It's a great amp. I like the sound of my dsl more, overall. All in all, apples and oranges, though. I do like it. Good to have when i want to change things up (i find myself using it on 25watt qnd the room shakes)

 

[Open lane]

With what i just said, please consider the fact i recently moved a guitar case because it was shaking and rattling in the guitar room. I very well may have interpretting the vibrating sound as a shitty breakup.

Regardless, i do not like the amp at all in low wattage mode. Sounds good on 25w w/ pedals. That's all i really use it for.

 

[Ewizard]

The FX loop is simply a solid-state loop. So it is not user-serviceable or adjustable. Sounds fine I am sure. The wattage modes are done by using a voltage regulating circuit that cuts the voltage to the power amp sections B+/HT supply. This is perhaps the best way to reduce volume ( and therefore reduce headroom to induce power tube breakup ), but this type of circuit comes with a downside. The reduction in B+ reduces volume enough, that with typical master volume amplifiers, allows you to hear more of the Pi distortion. Most people are not familiar with the sound of a distorting Pi. It is not inherently bad, but it can be very bright and brittle sounding if larger grid stoppers are not used into its grids. If the whole amp is scaled down ( the power tubes and the preamp section ) it will cause a brittle bright sound as well. Most amps do not scale down both the power amp and preamp, but I am not sure if the Origin does or not? That can be a reason though. My experience with amps like this ( budget-oriented ) is that they are brighter and more sterile sounding than better made and spec'd units.

That all being said, this is still a cool amp and it certainly ticks off a lot of the boxes.

 

[misterwhizzy]

The FX loop is simply a solid-state loop.

Incorrect. V2 is used as the effects loop buffer.

The wattage modes are done by using a voltage regulating circuit that cuts the voltage to the power amp sections B+/HT supply. This is perhaps the best way to reduce volume ( and therefore reduce headroom to induce power tube breakup ), but this type of circuit comes with a downside. The reduction in B+ reduces volume enough, that with typical master volume amplifiers, allows you to hear more of the Pi distortion.

Incorrect. The voltage to the screens is scaled down in this amplifier. B+ is slightly increased in lower power modes due to the lighter load on the power section.

If the whole amp is scaled down ( the power tubes and the preamp section ) it will cause a brittle bright sound as well. Most amps do not scale down both the power amp and preamp, but I am not sure if the Origin does or not? That can be a reason though. My experience with amps like this ( budget-oriented ) is that they are brighter and more sterile sounding than better made and spec'd units.

It sounds like you're making quite a few assumptions based on other amplifiers you assume are in the same category.

I'll leave this for evidence.

 

[Ewizard]

Certainly wrong about a couple of things. Sometimes I am. The video was hard to watch, a timestamp would have been nice. I didn't catch where he mentions the power scaling and how it was done? Not that it matters much, dropping the screen voltage is still dropping B+, it is just only to that part of the power amp if that is the case. That is the least desirable way to power scale ( dropping only the screen voltage ).

If V2 is for FX loop drive and recovery, then the BOOST is a solid-state driven feature. Doesn't really matter though. He does mention that the amp is fragile and requires care for modifying. Heck, he even had to remove half the components to mod it into a more popular topology. The cold hard facts are that this amp is a budget-minded amplifier, that despite its place of manufacture, weird marketing strategy, and obvious budget-oriented build quality, it is a cool amplifier that fills a need, sounds good enough, and is able to make some good noise. All assumptions aside.

 

[misterwhizzy]

The more I play this amp, the happier I am with it. I'm finally getting the Marshall tone I've heard on so many albums. It is a bit of a one-trick pony, but that trick has been the backbone of rock acts since the beginning of the genre. Does it clean up perfectly with the volume knob? No, but it's good enough. Is it a modern high-gain monster? Absolutely not. Does it rock? Yes, and hard.

Ewizard, I think the boost is switching out V1b bypass components. I don't think there is any active, solid-state amplification involved.

 

[GuitarStv]

I want an Origin 20 head. They sound great through greenbacks, and were easy to get good towns out of.

 

[Securb]

I love it. Very sweet amp

 

[esandes]

Yes, it's made in Vietnam, not China. I don't equate country of origin to quality, but I also wouldn't say these are exceptionally well-made.


Exhibit A, your honor, from the head I had replaced. The headshell is some kind of MDF or something, and I think actual solid wood would add a lot of durability and not a lot of cost.

There's a lot of contradiction in sentence #2.

 

[misterwhizzy]

I want an Origin 20 head. They sound great through greenbacks, and were easy to get good towns out of.

I’m running my 50 through Green Berets. I went for the 50-watter because the power section is fixed-bias, and it has a 20-watt version at the flick of a switch. For what it’s worth, I like the 20-watt mode a lot better than the 50 because it sounds much more brittle in the higher powered mode. Twenty watts is where it’s at with this amp for those chewy Marshall mids.

 

[Ewizard]

It is hard to get the level of drive needed without an additional gain stage in the path. If one tube is a phase inverter and the other is for the FX, that means only one tube creates 100% of the distortion the amp can make. There is no way to get the amount of drive the amp has with only two stages of gain. This is why I believe there is solid-state magic happening. It may utilize diodes as the JCM-900 does? It may have a couple of transistors? I highly doubt that ALL the gain is done with a single tube though.

The Egnater Tweaker series utilizes a transistor to get the gain it has. Several amps do in fact, like the Orange micro terror.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying my experience tells me there is more to this design than what is obvious. I did not expect there to be a valve driven FX loop; to me, that seems like a waste of resources. It has a tube for the phase inverter, leaving only 1 tube for ALL the possible gain the amp has ( assuming 100% tube driven ). It can do crunch with that, but not Marshall crunch. They can be switching in and out some bypass caps on the cathodes of the tubes, but that won't take you from clean to mean.



Looking at the picture of the amp, I see 9 transistors, 3 IC's, and 5 relays. There are three transistors near the first preamp tube. There is also a relay right there too. As best I can tell, it is a standard tube input driving into a standard second tube stage, and then there is a transistor that does something, and the second transistor I am guessing is a normal gain stage, and the third one is the make-up gain stage for the tone stack? Again, not 100% sure, but as best I can tell. What I can say with certainty, is that all the gain of the amp is NOT coming from 1 tube worth of gain stages.

It is irrelevant anyway though. All that matters is that you are happy with what you are getting from the amp. You will not hear me say that transistors are bad, or not worthy, only that the marketing and design choices are misleading or not ideal. Transistorized amplifiers are great, especially when you know that you are getting a transistorized amp. The Orange Crush series is AMAZING. The stuff Randall was making in the '80s and '90s was amazing. The Ibanez Tone Blaster is killer! The Egnater tweaker is a cool amp, I own one, but it is not my favorite. I postulate on amp design because I design amplifiers, sometimes my blind impression of the design of an amp is wrong.