Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

[Jazzfiend101]

Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Hey guys, I'm looking to enhance upon some sound and I'd like to know the best direction to go.

That's me with the guitar I'm looking to put them into. It's an Epiphone Les Paul Custom with the Hot Rodded set. I've had it for years it's always worked fine, and the sound is definitely there for what I've done (cover bands and original rock outfits). I've always liked good rock and roll like Aerosmith and GNR, but my rig is set up like a Metallica fan. I'm running an Orange Dark Terror through two 1x12 cabs. These days I kick the gain to about one o'clock and hit the power levels over 9000.

Usually I'm not too big on pedals. I've a 535q Crybaby, a Boss Chorus, Phase 90, and an Ibanez Jet Driver for a boost (this last one needs to be replaced as it's too noisy, too gainy, and not enough boost.)

I'm trying to figure out if I need to go heavy or just get another guitar. This is my only one and it's pretty versatile, but I'm wondering for what I do if dropping Blackouts, EMGs or a Nazgûl in the bridge will still help me cover as much ground. I notice that the JB may be lacking in the bottom end, but it can still do blues and a funky 2 note chops. I like the output tho. I've also heard of the Black Winters being a great well rounded set. They se to do great with cleans and hard rocking chug.

Any words?

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[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

The Pegasus is a much better pickup than the Nazgul, if you want something like that, its probably the best out of the 7 to 6 string pickups that they've made. Great note separation & it can cover a wide range of musical styles. It's as good playing Classic Rock as Nu Metal... JB's are like the Grateful Dead, you either love them or you absolutely hate them! The "upper mid spike" you hear so many people complaining about can be a bit piercing but it falls righ in line with some people's playing style? I can't stand them but not my guitar and they are pretty capable puppies in the right hands! Actives are cool but they will take quite a bit more work & modification to install, some of it permanent. I'd suggest not going that route unless you're absolutely sure you want active pickups? You'll need a battery box & to change all your pots from 500Ks down to about 75K's? It will be costly and you could hate it once you've finished? The Black Winters are also great Metal pickups, they're very good at doing what it was they were designed to do but not much else I.M.H.O.....
Hope some of this was helpful and good luck.....

 

[Dahla]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

For passives that go over 9000 and still are versatile: BW all the way. I went with 250k pots, and it tamed the highs perfectly. YMMV.

For actives, I would check out EMG, either the het set or the 57/66. If you are on the crunch or distortion 80% of the time, I'd take the het set.

I have them all, and that is my 0.2€.


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[lucaspaço]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

I have a Nazgul 6 and love it! I find it very versatile and it has great note separation even in very low tunings!

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Go Dimarzio. A creme Super Distortion and Air Norton set would be great in that guitar.

 

[Gibson 1964]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

I have a Nazgul, and it is great at going all out. IME it is not that versatile. It is the most aggressive. When I play it, there is always an underlying aggression that I can't really get rid of. Personally, it is a great sound, but I would not want to try to use it in a versatile context. The note separation is good. It just feels all out to me all the time. However, I personally would say I doubt you could go wrong with the black winter. Whoever said the black winters were not versatile could not possibly be more wrong. They sound great clean. They do low gain crunch well. They split well, and they do hard rock and metal well. I own 7 of them in various guitars. They are essentially a very loud, very transparent and dynamic pickup.

 

[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

These are all great suggestions. I'm not doing anything dropped tuned, though so we can rule out the low end grind that I'm sure a lot of these metal pickups excell at doing.

I have heard good things about the Super Distortion too (didn't Randy Rhoads play those?). I am a bit of a Seymour Duncan snob I guess, but I've always thought a solid creme Super Distortion would be super cool in there. Is it versatile? Can I roll it down and get somewhat of a clean sound for a few funky spank lines? Also, I'm not opposed to buying split coils for my guitar to help with the chicka chicka funky chops I have to do...

What do you metal heads even know about Parliament anyway? Kidding.

Also I haven't heard much about the Pegasus, but I know that guys who use the Pegasus usually have the Sentient inside the neck. The Sentient is described as a very modern version of the 59 model with a Jazz neck vibe going on. I had a 59 set in a Les Paul once and they were great, I loved them. They did everything from Metallica to Fleetwood Mac... only gripe is that when playing through one overdriven channel the clean up was tough... but I get that's with any overdrive, you'll NEVER get perfect clean! That being said I liked the 59s a lot and even turned a metal head friend of mine onto putting them in his RR3 Jackson. And I'm currently using a Jazz. It cleans up well even on distortion... but it can be a bit thin, as I heard through the soundboard at one of our recorded shows. I said, my goodness that's the tiniest little clean tone ever haha.

So would the Pegasus/Sentient combo, what can be said of it? Anyone out there have it and use it for more than just blood curdling grindcore and math metal in a 9 string baritone tuned to drop H flat?

Also, I'm not opposed to outfitting the guitar to go active. I'm okay with that, but i'd like to know the right actives to go for. I know the EMG 81/85 combo is about as standard as a JB in a bridge is common. I also hear the really vestige version is the 81/60. Now, you hear good and bad reviews about the 81/85 everyday, but the new 81x/85x series came out and so far it's only good words.

Then there are Blackouts. To my ear Blackouts seem to be thicker in the bottom, and they are cleaner sounded. So they sound bigger, maybe a bit darker, but the notes stand out okay...

EMGs and Blackouts sort of sound similar to me. The only thing that keeps me leaning towards the EMGs are them Black Chrome covers tho. Dude come on are those not sexy or what?



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[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

So we all agree that the while the Nazgûl is perfect for grindcore and aggressive picking, it may be too over the top for doing other stuff. Probably can't play The Doors Roadhouse Blues without it sounding like a zombie Jim Morrison is eating your brains!

The Pegasus/Sentient set... it can metal, we say, but can it Led Zeppelin, or 80s hairspray rock? And deliver that intro sound to Buckcherry's Lit Up? My JB seems to handle it alright, but why not try something different?

But we have these Black Winters, what I've read about a lot with them being these perfectly eq'd we'll balanced Noise makers that have ridiculous output. Tell me a bit about these somebody. What do you use them for? Anything other than metal?

Also, someone give me a good case why I should go EMG over Blackouts? What am I really paying for?

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[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

And I have considered the EMG Het Set. They look great, they seem to sound great. Only thing is they are damn near $250...

They got a JH signature ESP at GC I may go try playing on today.

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[Van Noord]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

If you go active, you are changing the feel of your guitar more than the sound IMHO.
I used EMGs for years, there is a definite adjustment period between both your ears and hands.

I used to be a SD snob too, now I'm all Dimarzio.

 

[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

The Pegasus is a much better pickup than the Nazgul, if you want something like that, its probably the best out of the 7 to 6 string pickups that they've made. Great note separation & it can cover a wide range of musical styles. It's as good playing Classic Rock as Nu Metal... JB's are like the Grateful Dead, you either love them or you absolutely hate them! The "upper mid spike" you hear so many people complaining about can be a bit piercing but it falls righ in line with some people's playing style? I can't stand them but not my guitar and they are pretty capable puppies in the right hands! Actives are cool but they will take quite a bit more work & modification to install, some of it permanent. I'd suggest not going that route unless you're absolutely sure you want active pickups? You'll need a battery box & to change all your pots from 500Ks down to about 75K's? It will be costly and you could hate it once you've finished? The Black Winters are also great Metal pickups, they're very good at doing what it was they were designed to do but not much else I.M.H.O.....
Hope some of this was helpful and good luck.....

I like the JB... I do not like the Grateful Dead.

Death to jam bands. Death to Phish loving acid hippies.

Death to all but metal.

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[Lampy H]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

The best part about this thread is that basically everyone has recommended something different.

When thinking about pickups like these, you're primarily going to be fine tuning the feel to your liking. Your best bet is to try different actives if you can, just to see if you can get along with them. Doing that, along with fine tuning your likes/dislikes of your setup now should slim down the currently massive list of potential candidates to something considerably smaller.

 

[LazNovak]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

You already have the JB. So, before you buy new pickups, why not try an Alnico 8 in the JB and maybe try some hex screws as well to tighten it up?

 

[EDX]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

if you want passive output obliteration and versatility there are only some routes, first and obligatory you must get a pair of triple shot mounting rings, whatever passive you solder them to will unleash all it's tonal capabilities, parallel, series, north coil split, south coil split, and of course slutbucking (SDUGF slang term for electrically making a humbucker out of the coils of 2 different humbuckers on a guitar) then you shall aim you tone man, you like the hot rodded set but the jb lacks bottom end

recommendation:

1. PATB 2 and PATBn combo: the parallel axis trembucker distortion is like the spawn of the distortion, jb and invader, all their goods but none of their lacks, thunderous output on the invader range, also massive tight bottom end, searing rhythm tone and strong pick attack with a singing high mids/highs that made your leads scream like with your JB, the PATB neck model is kind of a modern paf if you like, has the same low content as the jazz, but with more mids, and rounder sweeter highs so you cleans can sound thicker

2. Distortion mayhem set, yep things get hotter, the mids are strong but not omnipresent as on the jb, the distortion is like a darker tighter jb with a high pitched searing scream, still not a one trick pony, the dist neck has it's own thing going, instead of a paf sound it's more like a screaming pickup tonally inspired by a hot paf and a good complement to the distortion on the bridge you might not be able to play country or pop with these but you can still ride the high way to hell!

3. Black Winter set, hear the distortion, take the beast and domesticate and modernize it..... just a bit, is basically an even clearer and better balanced distortion set, maybe the beast now wears jeans and a t shirt instead of spandex and a leather jacket, but the aggression, kick, and wish for kill is still there, funk, blues, rock, the most evil and distorted of metals, it almost seems stupid that the designed to be the quintessential black metal pickup is so damn versatile but it is man!!

4. Dimebag Set, yup we're here, you can take over pantera, metallica, everything 80's thrash and 90's groove with this thing, turn your dime gain knob to 15 and rip it with the first power chord with these, but then the dimebucker is the only pickup that at insane output level as it is (the dimebucker is only surpassed in output by the slug and blackouts, and unless its blackouts metal the difference isn't astronomical) can actually nail blues and rock tones, not only get in the ballpark, split and twang like a tele even from the heaviest thickest mahogany slab, paf at the neck and you're done

5. Texas Bitter Sweet Rawness, or in pickup language, Dimebucker on the Bridge and a Pearly Gates Bridge on the neck slot, like the one above but your neck tone will be less clinical, sweeter and spicier with some pleasing fizz on top for those sustained blues bends yet you can sing to them old cotton fields as you're back home

6. Dimarzio D Activator set, switch to dist and attack, attack and just attack is what you would hear when playing through the bridge pickup, you can go and nail anything tight metal, then shred right over with a saucy and controlled tone on the neck, i doubt you can ever sound like a tele even split, but nailing stairway to heaven should't be hard, just note that you must translate the color code from dimarzio do duncan in order to install these on the triple shots rings

 

[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

EDX you must be a salesman or a blogger, but either way you know how to deliver on the product! All of these tips are great advice. I appreciate the input, I've obviously got some choices on the board so now I have to pick something and roll with it

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[EDX]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

salesman?..... i have a friend who could sell ice to a penguin an he told me he wont buy me a glass of water in the middle of the dessert.... but maybe i'm a little more knowledgeable about tone than about selling water......

one last tip about getting versatility, the misconception is getting gear, or in this case, a pickup that can do anything..... but then you end with a piuckp wich is meh or average on everything, the right path is get the pickup that suits your main tone (on your main musical genre) AND can also get in the ballpark/nail some of the other tones you're after

and that comes from a guy who plays (or most of the times just tries to play) AC/DC, ZZ top, Black Sabbath and Pantera with a dimebucker on the bridge spot of a one pickup guitar

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

If you like the versatility of the JB, but generally want a heavier sound, I think you'd be satisfied with a lot of options. What is it that you like about the JB? Versatility? The harmonics? The upper mids and treble bite? The Nazgul is supposed to be aggressive, have great string separation, and a tight and punching low end. I'm thinking of trying it actually, so I can talk more about it and it seems like I'd like it for a particular guitar. The Invader is also has some common ground with the JB, but is darker with less treble and lower mids along with more bottom end. The Black Winter is also worth a shot IMO, but I still need to try it. Apparently it's really versatile as well as heavy. The EMG 81 obviously can do heavy, and it has a biting top end with plenty of harmonics. If the 81 doesn't do it for you in the bridge, the 85 in the bridge is also worth a shot - it is supposed to sound darker than the 81 with a bigger low end. It is also has a lot of compression going on, which you may or may not like. If you want to talk about Blackouts, talk to a user here named JOLLY. He loves them and uses them a lot.

Really if you just want a high output pickup with a big bottom end and at least some versatility, most of the pickups I just mentioned will do that, but they're just different flavors.

The best part about this thread is that basically everyone has recommended something different.

That's the norm here. It's quite embarrassing actually.

 

[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

That's well put, I have considered the music I've done, the music I play in my bedroom, the music I play onstage, and looking for the music I want to play in the future. At the moment I only have the one Epiphone Custom, and at this juncture it's either buy a different set of pickups to see if I can improve upon what I like, or buy a new guitar and dive into a different sound. Weighing my financing options at guitar center (thank God for good credit lolz).

I like my JB. People mention the mid spike but I round my tone on most of my amps to a bigger darker mid range similar to what you would hear on early AC/DC records, or maybe even on one of The Darkness albums. Those guys aren't playing with pickups as hot as what I've got (except maybe Justin Hawkins using those Gibson ceramic buckers) but let's face it... they got their AC30s and Plexis blowing wide open... at that point you can plug anything in and as long as you don't suck you'll sound halfway good.

I like my top end on my JB, it's reminiscent of Slash's tone on Appetite, really biting. It has this cutting Randy Rhoads going on, and it sustains well. Although in the recording from the sound board it sounded a lot like treble, kind of hollow, or lacking bottom, but it didn't sound bad... I was like, damn I wish I had another sound to conjur so I could mix it up.

My old LP with a set of 59s in it was very versatile until the knobs started fizzing out on it and it became a little less managable. The 59s would do anything from Government Mule to Megadeth. Great neck pickup for sweeps as I recall, and probably had the best sounding slide guitar tone I've put on. We'd play Caged The Elephant "Ain't No Rest For The Wicked" and turn it up a notch so it would have sounded as of Motley Crue did the track. The slide was dirty, mean, and clear, but I think that had a lot to do with me playing it the way I should.

Here's a concern. I want my guitars to be in the same neighborhood. I tried going for a vintage guitar sound with a heavy metal on another guitar and I noticed output wise I went back to fiddling knobs on amps between changes in gear. Always readjusting the level. One was loud, another quiet. I'd like same/similar volume with different colors.

If I'm in Motorhead mode my gear should line up with that, but if I have to play Billie Jean it's gotta line up with that.

So questions:
59/Custom Hybrid - Is it vintage meets metal, or are we only able to do Allman Bros on it? Would this be the versatile creature to answer my calls for fire breathing dragon solos, killer down picking thrash metal, but still sweet enough to not sucked when it cleans up.

Also, split coils? The Triple Shot is coil, but when I play I need sounds on the fly, with limited pedal tap dancing, so that means I need one button in my comfort zone where my hands are already nearby as they play so I can pull off a new sound. I play fast, work fast, and I have to think fast when I'm hopping up and down on stage being silly. I need quick access to sounds, and split coils seem very popular.

Yalls thoughts are helping me choose my next purchase, so any input is still appreciated! Thanks

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[Jazzfiend101]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

I haven't considered the Dimebucker before, as I had a friend who told me he owned one and it just had this ridiculous ice pick tone he couldn't get rid of. I had glassy ice pick sounds so I steered away from it for years. Matter of fact I pulled a Pearly Gates out of that white guitar's bridge because of that issue. The PG was way too bright, had no body on the low end, which surprised and disappointed me since B. Gibbons is one of my all time favorite rockers who I love for his thick thick thick sound and here I have his pickup with this tiny pencil thin tone. Iono, after like 2 years of using it I couldn't find a way to like it. And it was too quiet.

I mentioned the difference in volume earlier, and when I pulled the PG guitar out and put the one with a set of 59s in that became an issue, and a few people pointed that out to me at shows.

So even though I use a JB which is famous for it's ice pick entering your eyeball sound, it never came off to me as the PG bridge which was too quiet and too bright and too glassy. (It was GREAT at faking a Tele sound for funk songs tho) The JB just sort of took that sound and gave it a bit of body, and made things louder.

My ideal tone?

Going To Brazil - Motorhead

There you guys go. Check it out, it rocks and rolls, sounds good. Thick. I'm sure Phil Campbell used ten different guitars on the track, but I do know he endorses the Full Shred set. Don't know much about them, but if he's using them they must be good.

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[Lampy H]

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

Re: Nazgûl, JB, or go active?

I have the 59/Custom Hybrid, and it can do almost anything really well.