Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

[Mr. B]

I've recently really gotten into some retro shred stuff, Petrucci, Gilbert, Vai, Becker, Johnson etc. I'm trying to set up one guitar dedicated to shred. My problem is the neck pickup. If I am using moderately high gain on my Marshalls, Fenders or even my Vox modeler, switching to the neck pickup when playing up higher on the fretboard is very unpleasant. Specifically, when playing on the high E, B and G strings up around the 10th to 15th fret, I get a clangy, brittle, glassy, icepick sound when playing single notes and bends. Its sounds microphonic, nonmusical, harsh.

At first I thought it was the Ibanez S470 guitar with the ZR bridge, and I DO think this accentuated it, but I also hear it with my Prestige RG with an Edge trem, and with my hardtail PRS. It happens with every amp when using higher gain settings. I've used the PAF pro, Air Norton, 59, Screaming Demon, Full Shred, and Pearly Gates Neck pickups and they all do it to a lesser or greater extent.

This does not occur when using the bridge pickup on the same settings. I know that with a single coil strat, you can't throw as much gain at the neck pickup as you do the bridge, but I don't see these Shred guys turning down the gain when they switch to the neck pickup. I don't get it. What am I doing wrong??

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Tried the pickup low and high. Doesn't matter.
My action is not as low as most shredders like.
The amp EQ doesn't seem to make a difference. I'm not cranking the treble and scooping all the mids or anything.

Its happening with 4 Ibanez S models, 2 PRS guitars, and 2 Ibanez RG guitars that I have been experimenting with as a dedicated shred stick. It isn't the guitar, or the guitar's set-up.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Check out his video of Paul Gilbert from the 80's. The ice-pick screachy tone on the high E and B when he is playing above the 12th fret is what I am hearing in my setups. Listen about 20-35 seconds in, and you can hear a lot of it. This is exactly what I am getting, except mostly just with my neck pickup.

http://youtu.be/D-_Wm8T1iMc

 

[El Supremo]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Tried thicker strings or a thinner pick? What are you using now?

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

I am using 9's and I have tried 9.5's. The 9.5's helped a little, but not enough to matter much. I'm not going to use my regular 10's on this shred guitar.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

I think thats just the nature on the beast when playing up that high on the neck. Maybe try rolling back your vol or tone knob a notch or two? Also a thicker pick will help get rid of some of that high end.

 

[El Supremo]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Actually, a lighter pick might be the thing to help mellowing some of that high end attack. Also, the sharper the tip, the sharper the attack will be. Try one of the other sides of the pick to see if that helps (just for the heck of it). So if moving up to 10's is not an option (which you might want to reconsider if you pick really hard), I would try a lighter pick with a less sharp tip. Also try and look into different materials. Dunlop nylons will also be slightly mellower.
If that still doesn't do the trick, you might wanna raise the action even more or turn down the tone on your guitar.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

If that is the nature of all neck pickups under high gain, how do the all the great shredders get neck pickup tones that I like? Turning the tone knob WAY down does help, but then your tone is mud, so....

Thick picks, thin picks it doesn't make any difference with the shrill clanginess I'm talking about. I already have the action a tad higher than most shredders would prefer.

I've already tried changing strings, string gauge, action, trem angle, springs, intonation, picks, Tone pots, Volume pots, Caps, Pickups, pickup height, string height, Guitars, Amps.

I must be doing Something wrong with the mix/EQ in conjunction with the neck pickup and high gain amps. I'm just figuring I'm not the first person to run into this when chasing shred tones.

I remember I like to never got the Stevie Ray Vaughan Strat neck tone I had been chasing until I discovered much larger strings and tuning to E Flat. I'm hoping for a similar revelation here.

 

[El Supremo]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

The only other thing I can think of is actually more gain. Vai and Satriani used a DS-1 to saturate their Marshalls. Petrucci had a Mark2C+ which has a thick middy sound naturally.

Last option: you could try a higher output pickup in the neck like a JB or a Super Distortion. Gilbert used a SD in the neck albeit parallel wired.

 

[Nacho8807]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

How do you EQ your amp? I find I get a good shred tone with the treble backed off, and the mids and presence bumped a bit.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Those are both good suggestions El Supremo. If I'm not mistaken I remember reading that Vai or Satch one used 2 DS-1's at once. I've never tried anything hotter than the Demon in the neck position. I might drop a JB in there and see.

I get good shred tones with the treble down quite a bit, the mids backed off a little more than my usual, and the bass turned down a bit too.I either use one of the high gain channels on my Marshall JVM410 straight in, or one of its crunch channels with the OD-1, Bad Monkey, or BB Preamp to push it a little. But that is with the BRIDGE pickup. When I switch to the neck I still get that brash clanginess up around the 12th-15th fret on the high strings. I've tried to EQ it specifically for the neck pickup, but that takes away all the scream and bite from the bridge pickup and turns everything to mud.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Your going to have to make a compromise between the two pups tone wise or switch them to a more matched and complimentary set. Or just use only one pup which ever one you like the sound of more.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

It might as well be about your tremolo springs or even the way you pick. Why don't you record a clip?

 

[MkIII Renegade]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

There is plenty of good advice in this thread. If you still have this problem after all of these things, then maybe you'd like another amp with a thicker midrange character like a Mesa Boogie Mark series. I used to have a Marshall TSL100, but couldn't get a rich lead tone compared to what I am used to, so I had to part ways with it (the JVM is much better, but still no Mark when it comes to lead tones). I know for a fact a Mark series or Orange for example can accomplish anything you need with your guitar without pedals if well setup. If it still doesn't work, then it's because of Player Fail. :headache:

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

I don't think I need a new amp. Shredders from the 80's/90's used Marshall amps, not Mesas, and had no problems. I did post a clip that sounds exactly like my problem, and I find it very curious that Paul Gilbert had the exact same bad clangy icepick sound coming from whatever rid he was playing through. I'm pretty sure its not player fail when in comes to Paul Gilbert.

I have had some success over the last 2 days using 2 distortion pedals in series for increased gain (which I wrongly assumed would make it worse) and lowering the treble a LOT and mids down quite a bit on the amp, then adding them back in with the pedal EQ's. This sounds pretty good with my RG and PRS. Some more tweaking and experimenting with pedals might get me there. The Ibanez S still has some of the clanginess on the high E and B, but then that guitar was always a bit clangy because of the cheap metal on the ZR trem.

I always thought it was a bit odd that Vai and Satriani used 2 DS-1 distortion pedals in a row, but maybe this is why. I also watched a few videos of shredder rig rundowns and noticed that 3 of them had the treble turned WAY further down than I would have thought to, and the bass way up.

Just out of curiosity, would any of you consider yourselves advanced shredders?

 

[greekdude]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Personally I consider my self shredder enough to know that most of the problems come from weakness in the hands/fingers. A real shredder should sound good even unplugged. Used to be haunted with similar problems, in my case i was considering boosting circuits for my EMGs in order to match the "shreddiness" of my livewires, but the mere truth was that the higher output livewires just hid my weaknesses while EMGs brought them to the surface. What I ended up doing was practice more. Once the left hand got strong enough I ended up ... modding the livewires for decreasing/taming their output Now i shred equally well across all my axes.
I am nowhere those 2 hand tapping monsters you see on youtube and/or famous bands/tutors, etc... but pretty good for 80s standards.
Rig-wise, i think i can nail at least 7-8 shredding tones (from deep purple - yngwie -> 80s -> randy rhoads -> thrash, nu-metal, etc..) with only Boss ME-25

 

[greekdude]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Some of us are on the dimarzio forum...

and some of them with same userid

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Pedals...

 

[El Supremo]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

Glad to see it worked out for you.
Tried a DS-1 yet? Just dusted mine off and it's pretty awesome when plugged into a Marshall.
As far as Paul Gilbert goes, I guess he's just more partial to a brighter and cleaner sound than say Vai or Satriani.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Neck Pickup and Shred... Help me out Shredders..

What kills me is I use to have 2 DS-1 pedals. I bought one on a friday, and then the next day I saw a kid a guitar center trying to trade another new one in for 20 dollars, so I bought his too. As a distortion pedal, I hated it, so I sold both of them, but that is not how Vai and Satch are using them apparently.