Neck pickup discussion - please drop your thoughts

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't mind a warmer-sounding neck pickup so long as the low-end isn't problematic. I actually prefer warmer. I want my neck pickups to sound neck-y. I've had issues before (with the PAF Pro) where the neck pickup is actually brighter than the bridge, and I hate that. I feel like what's the point of it being in the neck, then, right?

That's kinda what I'm digging about the 490R. It's not bright, but it's far from bassy either. The Air Norton is another example. It is fatter than the 490R, but it's more lower mids than actual deep problematic low-end. Although the Air Norton does sound super dull clean.

But all extremes are bad. A JB in the neck, for example, sounds like the amp is in another room, LOL.

 

[Top-L]

I don't mind a warmer-sounding neck pickup so long as the low-end isn't problematic. I actually prefer warmer. I want my neck pickups to sound neck-y. I've had issues before (with the PAF Pro) where the neck pickup is actually brighter than the bridge, and I hate that. I feel like what's the point of it being in the neck, then, right?

That's kinda what I'm digging about the 490R. It's not bright, but it's far from bassy either. The Air Norton is another example. It is fatter than the 490R, but it's more lower mids than actual deep problematic low-end. Although the Air Norton does sound super dull clean.

But all extremes are bad. A JB in the neck, for example, sounds like the amp is in another room, LOL.

A few years ago I got a LTD M400 with a single volume control. None of the pickups I put in the guitar sounded right until I realized it was because it was missing a tone control. Even with a tone control on ten, it still bleeds some treble.

I did some research (somewhere in this forum) and found that you can simulate a tone control (on ten) using some resistors. So I bought a pack of resistors in various values and putting them in series I was able to custom tailor the top end. I needed to experiement with different values until it sounded right.

If I was really cool, I might consider doing something like that, just for the neck pickup. Then I could probably get the alnico pickups to sound just like I want. I know that crafty strat players would just use the tone control, but I play metal/shred and I never use the tone control.

(BTW, I started modding with a single 250K volume pot, but that was perceptibly darker than a 500K/500K setup. It also forced me to test the actual values of all my pots which I have sharpied on the back. They sound different.)

The Air Norton was alright, but a little too low output for my tastes.

This forum has shown me that you can usually get what you want with wiring changes.

 

[freefrog]

P.A.F. (meh) <- a5
Jazz (just no) <-a5

It's interesting to see at the bottom of a list neck pickups that I'd put at the top of mine...

Tastes and colors aren't to be discussed. ;-)

That said: are we talking about some real "P.A.F." here?

I've zero problem to obtain good tight neck HB tones from the original recipe, personally.

But it seems to me that among the incredibly high number of supposed P.A.F. clones on the market, very few are really close to the original recipe, precisely. Many models materialize the idea that people have of vintage tones rather than a faithful repro of old PU's.

FWIW- uninteresting rambling from an old fart liking old things.

 

[Top-L]

It's interesting to see at the bottom of a list neck pickups that I'd put at the top of mine...

Tastes and colors aren't to be discussed. ;-)

That said: are we talking about some real "P.A.F." here?

I've zero problem to obtain good tight neck HB tones from the original recipe, personally.

But it seems to me that among the incredibly high number of supposed P.A.F. clones on the market, very few are really close to the original recipe, precisely. Many models materialize the idea that people have of vintage tones rather than a faithful repro of old PU's.

FWIW- uninteresting rambling from an old fart liking old things.

It was a Dimarzio open coil PAF. (I just checked the Dimarzio site, and the pickup I owned was before Dimarzio created 20 different variations of PAF pickups, so I don't know which one.)

As you can tell, I like pickups on the hotter side. The PAF and Jazz sound better for clean and lower gain sounds. They are full and open, but when you increase the gain, they lack focus and are messy. IMO.

 

[Aceman]

I'm just gonna say this. Because I'm me.

I don't think you have any idea what you like or want.

I'm not sure why that is, but I see you asking so many questions, to other people, about pickup topics that I'd think should be obvious for someone who has been through as many as you, I don't get it.

Example: @beaubrummels nailed it on the first post. You basically said that you like actives/higher output pickups, that are by their nature, very homogenous (not unlike an X2N in a 59LP or a 2x4). And similar neck to bridge except for string zone differences...

Yet you immediately dismissed it.

I think you are so tonally wrapped around yourself that you are doomed.

 

[Aceman]

I find LP's have a propensity to be be muddy in the neck position, but i never felt it was too much low end. I always felt it was a lack of percussive attack which makes the lows "muddy" as many describe it. I'd describe it more like dull. The one pickup so far for me that seems to have been the best in dealing with that has been the pearly gates. Not perfect, but after trying a bunch of pickups in 3 different P's in the last year or so it's easily the best so far. I'd love to try a 59 set in my current LP and eventually might. But as wicked as the PGs sound I just don't think they're going to be as good. I have always been a fan of A5 ore the any other magnet but A2 is great in HB's and A5 may be too tho i haven't tried any really great quality/reputation A5 HBs. Just one, then a couple others that were A2 and i changed the mag to 5.

Muddy and Boomy are two different things
And any two Les Pauls are more different than two different Strats. Just the way they are made. The LP wood/construction impact sound more than a Strat.

And Yes, in general, I believe a PG is the perfect LP neck pickup. It tilts the EQ of a 59 down in the bass, and up in the upper mids just the right amount.

 

[freefrog]

It was a Dimarzio open coil PAF. (I just checked the Dimarzio site, and the pickup I owned was before Dimarzio created 20 different variations of PAF pickups, so I don't know which one.)

As you can tell, I like pickups on the hotter side. The PAF and Jazz sound better for clean and lower gain sounds. They are full and open, but when you increase the gain, they lack focus and are messy. IMO.

It might be the first iteration of the DP103, so... They kept the name but the recipe has noticeably changed to become the "36th anniversary" model - not that it was close to a real P.A.F. to begin with, BTW, but I'll avoid to ramble about that here.

43 years ago, my first big concert was played partly on a 24 frets Guild S300D with this pickup (first gen DP103) in neck position. In THIS instrument, it wasn't messy.

A potential problem with such low wound models is effectively their tendency to depend more on the instrument used. I see in which conditions even a SH2 can become messy and unfocused...

Enjoy with the models that you like anyway:: "Nothing else matters"... ;-)

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't think you have any idea what you like or want.

NGL, that isn't really far from the truth. Hence why I posted a thread for discussion.

 

[Top-L]

It might be the first iteration of the DP103

Yes, DP103 sounds familiar, whatever that entails. I know there are people who can hear the fine differences between single coil and PAF style pickups. That is why there are a million variations, but that ain't me. And I'm not trying to be dismissive, I know those things matter to those players as much as my criteria do to me.

My tone is basically a 5153 red channel, and I'm listening for things like the pick attack, EQ curve, response when muted, how much note separation, and how dynamic the tone is while doing all those other things (never want too much of a good thing.)

I also care about how well I can get other sounds from the guitar, but that is usually accomplished by using splits and/or parallel wiring. How well do those other sounds work with my core tones?

I know that vintage output pickups and single coils sound better for many styles. Maybe when I grow up I will explore them.

 

[beaubrummels]

If it were me, I might try a Brobucker in the neck. Passive PAF-ish recipe that is easy on the low end, soft on top, nice chimey high-mid peak for cleans that should translate to a singing liquid lead tone distorted, and just enough extra heat to potentially keep up with a hotter bridge pickup.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

If it were me, I might try a Brobucker in the neck. Passive PAF-ish recipe that is easy on the low end, soft on top, nice chimey high-mid peak for cleans that should translate to a singing liquid lead tone distorted, and just enough extra heat to potentially keep up with a hotter bridge pickup.

THat doesn't sound bad!

But then the Bro' is CS money. Maybe the WLH-B might work for that as well?

 

[Aceman]

You want a DiMarzio D-Activator. It is the neck tone you seek.

 

[Top-L]

You want a DiMarzio D-Activator. It is the neck tone you seek.

I tried a BC Rich with a D-Activator X and Super Distortion (neck) and it was badass.

You wouldn't think that combo works, but it does.

 

[beaubrummels]

THat doesn't sound bad!

But then the Bro' is CS money. Maybe the WLH-B might work for that as well?

WLH bridge is a different animal from the Brobucker. WLH is like an improved 59/PG with a little top end rolled off. It might work just fine and do what you want, it's just different - doesn't have the high mid peak for chimey sounds IME.

 

[Sun King]

The guitars I have are set up with a Fishman Classic set; a Fishman Modern set; JB/59-A4; Distortion/Jazz-RCUOA5; and Black Winter/Sentient-A2.
I honestly don't care for the neck pickups on either Fishman set, and in fact I'll probably switch from the Classics to something passive (probably another JB/59 set.)

My problem is I like to chase tones from bands I try to play, and that's why the Classic set has fallen out of favor, for me. The JB bridge does Alice In Chains better, and the Distortion does Tool better, plus they can both cover a lot more ground if needed. (Actually, the Classics in drop-D do come very close for Tool, but the Distortion is spot-on. So why "settle"?)

But for the three passive neck pickups I'm using, I'd have to rank them as:
1. Jazz with rough-cast un-oriented A5 magnet
2. Sentient with A2 magnet
3. 59 with A4 magnet

Honestly the Sentient is almost a tie with the Jazz, and I think it's actually more versatile. So you might look into that one.
It sounds good clean, slight adjustments on the guitar's tone and volume knobs are quite effective, and I'd say it handles high gain better than the other two. Plus it sounds decent when coil split, too. I swapped out the Sentient's A5 mag early on, so all I can remember about it in stock form is that I didn't exactly care for it. And while the Jazz with high gain can sound a bit piercing on the higher notes of the unwound strings, the Sentient isn't as prone to that.

I can't compare the Jazz in that way because I didn't bother to install a coil-split pot for it; I've tried a standard Jazz in the past with a coil-split and it was just too thin for me. I guess I'm also not a fan of A5 magnets, (other than the JB.) I also have tried an A2 magnet in the Jazz and still didn't care for it, so as a last-ditch effort I threw in the RCUOA5 that I had laying around, and that turned out to be the right recipe. I really didn't think that the RCUOA5 would bring much difference compared to the standard A5, but it worked out well. I like its sound under high gain better than the Sentient and way better than the 59. It was a tough comparison overall between the Sentient and the Jazz, but I do like the Jazz best.

I think the 59-A4 sounds quite good clean, but still kind of boomy under gain. If I were to only play clean tones the 59 might be my favorite.
The Jazz and Sentient are both in swamp ash guitars with maple caps and ebony fretboards, so they're a little bright, the Jazz more so. But like I said, a slight adjustment of the guitar's tone knob (or an EQ pedal) fixes that issue.

So the Sentient and Jazz (with mag swaps) might be worth looking into. Good luck in your quest!