Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

[Silence Kid]

For luthiers or anyone else who has experience... This is pertinent because I need to bounce off what a few luthiers have said to me with regard to repairing my Strat neck:

-Is it acceptable for a neck to not be able to get totally straightened using the truss rod (say, with 9 guage strings?)
-About how many degrees or turns from "neutral" should it take to get the neck totally straight? Is this number different for a dual action rod?
-Is it acceptable or expected for a neck with the rod at neutral to back-bow somewhat?


...


Now here's just me venting frustration: Know what I almost hate more than getting ripped off by repair people? Being told that there's not a problem, when there clearly is one, and being refused service. Somehow this happens to me more than you think, with amps, guitars, cars... (Example, a few years ago I took an amp in because the EQ controls and tremolo weren't functional, I came back for the amp two weeks later and the guy hooked it up to a scope to show me that "technically" the controls and tremolo did function and you could see it on a graph even if you couldn't hear it aloud... He didn't charge me, but boy was I pissed that he wouldn't fix it.)

So now my neck won't dial in flat (as is my preference,) the truss rod is near maxed, and I guess I'm supposed to deal with that, per two "luthiers?" What if I didn't use light strings; it'd be even worse! A bit less than .5mm of relief is as good as I can get when I measure between the first/last frets before I reach a "dangerous" feeling point; I have a half-dozen other guitars where the rod in neutral has about that amount of relief, do those guitars have the issue? Doesn't feel like it to me, because those guitars actually set up to my preference.

Frustrated enough to just sell the guitar at this point, if only it didn't sound/play so well otherwise. The relief thing nags on me each time I pick it up though. Anyway I'd probably get nothing for it if I properly disclosed the neck issue, especially as I got a great deal on it due to it having chips/scratches in the first place. Uggh.

 

[daenius]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

I'm no luthier, but I certainly setup every single one of my 22 guitars myself to fit my my own needs. This includes all kinds of bridge and truss rod neck adjustments. Regardless of the maker of the guitar I almost always have to change at least something minor to suit my taste (I own plenty of brands under the sun from regular production axes to booteek stuff: Suhr, Tom Anderson, Fender, you name it, no factory setup is gonna be 100% exactly what you want unless what you want just happens to be what they do)

It IS acceptable for the neck to not be 100% straight because different people have different preferences for neck relief. BUT there is absolutely no reason for a neck to not be able to be adjusted to 100% straight with 9 gauge unless something's messed up with the neck. This can range from just poor neck quality to unrecoverable neck warp.

Number of turns to achieve a certain concavity varies for each neck and truss rod. However, it typically does NOT take a large amount of rotation to make adjustments with the strings on and in tune. For example, it typically takes me no more than 1/8th turn to achieve the same amoutn of relief going from 9 gauge to 10 gauge, and vice versa.

As to whether it's acceptable for a neck to have back bow with the rod at neutral? I think so? I'm not super familiar with this issue but I have built 2 guitars and both of the necks came fairly straight, and I did have to adjust the truss rod just a little bit, maybe up to half a turn, to get the concavity I want.

Hope that helps. Very sorry to hear about your guitar's neck, if the truss rod is already at maximum tightness and it still concaves forward, there may be something more sinister going on with the neck. How old is this guitar? It's possible that the truss rod isn't "maxed out", but rather just became difficult to adjust over the years and you can get that fixed.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

It's a 2007 Strat Deluxe. I took it to a luthier almost a year ago, who refused to do anything more for me than turn it and advise me of where it was "maxed" and still had relief, advising that this was normal... The relief was... Ok at that point, not totally to my preference, but over the last year it's slowly added relief. Humidity/weather? But after a summer and a winter and back into warm weather, it hasn't sprung back. So two other luthiers have told me it's still maxed; and it sure as hell feels stiff to me. I've backed it out a few times, and returned it to the same point.

As it's a US guitar, the walnut retainer would need to be backed out to get a spacer in there, so that's likely beyond the price of being worth it; from what I understand, it may be possible to heat the neck and clamp it, to where it can be straightened? But again, people keep telling me there's no need for this or it wouldn't help. I kept strings off it for about a week, tried lightly pushing the neck back too, that hasn't helped.

If it's too cost prohibitive to fix, I guess I can get a new neck, but since it's an LSR/Deluxe that specific neck is harder to come by. I'd almost rather be done with this guitar/part it out, cut my losses and start shopping for a US G&L.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

If the neck won't get straight then you have issues. Even a 1-way rod is designed to accommodate the pull of string tension. You don't want the neck to be straight from a practicality/setup point of view, but you should theoretically have a rod that can do that job and more.

I'm just wondering how it has been determined that the rod is at max tightness?? Most rods should come with well enough free threads for the adjustor nut to go well beyond what the wood can tolerate bend-wise.

 

[daenius]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

wow VERY sorry to hear that! I think you got extra unlucky and had a bad neck.

If you like US made Strats, I would HIGHLY recommend shopping for a used Suhr Classic Pro. You can snag one for like 1.6k typically, around the same price as a US G&L or Fender Deluxe. They NAIL the classic Fender sound and vibe with great modern playability improvements, and the necks are to die for! I have 2 Suhr Standards and I've never adjusted the neck in 5 years except for the initial minor adjustment I made to fit the 9 gauge strings (they ship out of the factory with 10s)

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

Playing phone/email tag with another tech. Resisting the urge to try to mess with it myself further and break something.

Hope it can be fixed... I would love to get into a Suhr, but for the price a used G&L Invader is what I have in mind as a replacement. They seem to be in that weird place somewhere between "not pointy enough" for metal guys and "too extreme" for many G&L players who just want a nicer Strat/Tele or MDFs specifically, but I love the Invaders for what they are.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

Steve Soest in Orange straightened the neck. Got it back yesterday, it's holding out... So far.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

Good luck.

My So Cal has the same problem. Just bad wood from the start. One piece maple neck, I mean one piece as in the neck also serves as the fretboard. No wood joint. I blame it on this construction.

I have turned the rod at least 3.5 full turns, seriously, used 10s strings, and sure it went straight for a few days, then it warped again. But still very playable.

 

[daenius]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

Glad to hear it's working again!

Unlucky with neck wood it seems... Yeah it's why Ibanez makes 5 piece necks reinforced with freakin Titanium truss rod to get a higher consistency in neck quality nowadays.

 

[RandomToneGuy]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

Glad to hear it's working again!

Unlucky with neck wood it seems... Yeah it's why Ibanez makes 5 piece necks reinforced with freakin Titanium truss rod to get a higher consistency in neck quality nowadays.

I plan on buying some titanium reinforcement rods.

Sent from my SGP511 using Tapatalk

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Neck Relief/Truss Rod Questions...

yeah, OP, a neck that won't get flat relief ...that's a bad thing. Most necks will dial in flat, and the problem with many many necks is the opposite, they won't give you much if any relief, but that's usually just normal for an average new production mid grade neck IME, and the way they are constructed.I typically want a bit more relief than many of my good necks won't get.