Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

[Jenson Nash]

Hi,

I'm currently designing a ghost in going to be building later in the year and am wondering about neck shape and profile. I find if I play a long piece with barre chords, I get cramp in the centre of my palm.

I have very long fingers and am hoping to combat it in my design.

Any ideas?

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

For starters, What kinda of necks are you using that might be contributing to that?

 

[greekdude]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Hi,

I'm currently designing a ghost in going to be building later in the year and am wondering about neck shape and profile. I find if I play a long piece with barre chords, I get cramp in the centre of my palm.

I have very long fingers and am hoping to combat it in my design.

Any ideas?

Happens to me with all LP designs. Strats C shape have also become annoying to me. Now I enjoy only my 6-string Carvin DC135 and my 7-string Ibanez UV70p.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Some players with that complaint prefer a V shape such as the Fender Clapton strat

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Do you play thumb-over or thumb-behind, and what is the current guitar giving you trouble.

The best thing to do is go play a bunch of different guitars. For example, the Les Paul 50's and 60's necks, the 52RI Tele, 57 and 62 RI Strat, new American Standard Strat, a Music Man to try a thinner neck, a few Martins to try a 1-3/4" neck with various profiles, etc.

I find my different neck profiles and shapes are better for different styles of playing.

'52 RI Tele (thicker v shape) great for "cowboy chords" with thumb over.
Martin HD-28V (wider v shape) great for cowboy chords and fingerpicking
62RI Strat (Thick C) I like it for thumb-over SRV style (fills my hand while playing that style)
62RI Hot Rod and '69 Style Strat (mid C) all around versatile for mild thumb-over and behind
Charvel style (thin wide) great for thumb-behind

If I tried to do the SRV style on the thin wide neck I'd have killer cramping. If I tried to do thumb-behind on the fat neck it would be a little uncomfortable. That's why I say try a bunch, once you find a shape and size you like you can look up the specs on the Internet and try to match them.

 

[philthis]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

i have both neck shapes. a custom C shape and a soft V shape. I'v had several types including a U shaped neck. The U shaped neck felt great wile siting down because of my hand and elbow angle holding the neck, but once I stood up to jam with the boys I really hated that U shaped neck. it was like trying to play a baseball bat with strings. big and clubby and I hated and sold it. Thing is though, with that big fat neck..my guitar had excellent sustain but no playability. learning from that I next went to modern C shaped necks. A little less sustain but fast action. however for bending notes and vibrato or 4 or 5 string chords there was a gap between the neck and the back of my hand and I had to grab the neck extra fast to compensate when I played to make up for the gap. this became an annoying pain in the @ss playing jazz chords or string skipping solo runs. I next went to the neck radius. I went from 9.5 to 12 for a flatter fret board so bending would be easier and it was but still the gap in the neck between the back of my hand and the neck when I played 4 or 5 string chords and even some triads and bends. I picked up a Eric Johnson strat with a soft V neck and at first it felt weird but the fret board radius was 12 to 16. at that point it was easier to bend and scale like hell on. the soft V came in handy when playing chords. I could actually pivot on the neck when I was bending instead of trying to pivot off my thumb. Becouse the neck was a little thicker it sustained well and it was quartersawn so that helps a lot too. the guitar felt solid and it played well when I played it standing up because i could bend pivoting on the neck. it was odd to get used to at first but within a short time it felt much better. I have large hands, not huge hands but large hands. Thats a consideration. if you have large hands try playing a soft V shape with a flatter neck radius like 12 to 16 and it may work for you too. if your hands are small or barley medium then some players like ether a shorter neck or thinner modern C shape neck. most agree if the neck has a little more wood on it that it generally sustains a little better. if you have large hands you can get away with it. check your hand size first and go from there. I never did well with the skinny wide necks (wizard profile). if you have medium to large hands and you pivot off your thumb you may like that profile. i went for flatter neck with soft V and it worked for me. Eric Johnsons have that profile. play it standing up too no matter what before you buy it as you will be jamming with other guys.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

My solution, the Warmoth Boatneck Contour. It's a big, fat V shape. Perfect for my big hands. A fat C is nice too (that's what she said).

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

For barre chords I have my thumb behind the neck; a v shape sounds terrible.

 

[Jenson Nash]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Wow thanks for the responses all.

I find most problems with my acoustic probably due to the higher string action and gauge. I find cramp mainly on very stretched chords over 3-4 frets.

My acoustic (freshman juggernaut) and schecter solo 6 hell raiser have very similar neck size and profile with the schecter slightly slimmer than the acoustic.

I'm interested in V shape necks but worry about behind neck thumb positions.

I play alot of thumb over stuff in open position and move it over for some bending but I'm actually trying to develop my behind neck thumb position to increase playing speed during quick runs.

I've tried guitars with different neck shapes but find it difficult to judge in the short amount of time I have with them.

My schecter feels very comfortable on my left hand usually but starts to cramp after a while playing barres, but when playing the stretched chords where I move my thumb lower behind the neck, like in "I'll be watching you" (see last picture for the most problematic chord) I feel cramping almost immediately

Here's a link to some pictures for reference.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8fOTP0zYhzqNEc2VnlLYzJzMUE

Thanks again for your thoughts

 

[philthis]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

i dont like a deep V neck ether. its too steep into my hands when I'm playing. I only like a soft V profile. I have played the deep V and found it to be hard to slide up and down the neck on. each to his own I guess.

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Too subjective,I guess...

I "never" thumb-over,but play w/people who do.

All the best,I totally get it about not being able to spend time with 'em...

Lettuce know what you end up with!

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Agree with the "too subjective" posts. Some swear on big, fat thick necks, personally I cannot stand them for more than literally a couple of minutes.

I play thumb-behind and need the neck to be pretty thin to work for me and also devoid of the kind of shoulder that most "U" shapes have.

Like mentioned already, best thing you can do is play a bunch of very different guitars, see what works best for you and then go from there.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

I too had that problem on both my strats and my ibanez
When I went to Jerry's place he had a Gibson Les Paul Signature 335
Super low action , small mystery frets
Thin 60's neck

I could play that one all day
When I got my Epiphone Florentine I described Jerry's guitar and they approximated that

I now play till I'm bored not sore

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

I've had a possibly similar fretting hand issue that comes and goes. Although a fat neck isn't a cure, my hand holds up better with a fat neck than something like my ultra thin necked Hamer Special. For me, a fat neck is a 50s profile Tele or Les Paul neck.

YMMV, so the advice on trying many guitars is sound advice.

 

[philthis]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Wow thanks for the responses all.

I find most problems with my acoustic probably due to the higher string action and gauge. I find cramp mainly on very stretched chords over 3-4 frets.

My acoustic (freshman juggernaut) and schecter solo 6 hell raiser have very similar neck size and profile with the schecter slightly slimmer than the acoustic.

I'm interested in V shape necks but worry about behind neck thumb positions.

I play alot of thumb over stuff in open position and move it over for some bending but I'm actually trying to develop my behind neck thumb position to increase playing speed during quick runs.

I've tried guitars with different neck shapes but find it difficult to judge in the short amount of time I have with them.

My schecter feels very comfortable on my left hand usually but starts to cramp after a while playing barres, but when playing the stretched chords where I move my thumb lower behind the neck, like in "I'll be watching you" (see last picture for the most problematic chord) I feel cramping almost immediately

Here's a link to some pictures for reference.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8fOTP0zYhzqNEc2VnlLYzJzMUE

Thanks again for your thoughts

that fourth pic is what I hate. theres no neck to pivot on so your thumb and finger muscles become what you use. when I have a soft V I can bend pivoting on the neck wood. it takes a few hours to get used too. I have wood between my thumb and the neck now when I play a solo and bending is much easier. its not for everyone though. try it first and spend a little time before you try it. I cant play a big V it just digs into my hand but a soft V fits in my hand if that makes sense. I suggest trying out a few guitars with different necks at a bigger guitar shop to test this out. Incidentally, I liked the C profile on a Gibson Epiphone more than I liked the Fender C shaped neck. Fender Eric Johnson has the best soft V I have played on. I played an older Eric Johnson and the V was more pronounced than on the newer models. I know, thats weird but to me the newer Eric Johnsons have a better soft V neck profile. play away and let us know what you come up with. I am not telling you to go buy an Eric Johnson, I just used a few as a reference for soft V shaped necks. Then...........(gulp gulp) I liked it so much I pulled the trigger.

 

[philthis]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

OK so weird turn of events, I went to a Guitar Center grand opening last night and won a Epi Les Paul Special. its a mahogany guitar with a skinny neck on it. I thought what the hell am I gunna do with this guitar? I figured I might raise the strings up and turn it into a slide guitar. I tuned it and played it for a wile. when i was done I noticed underneath my thumb muscle in the groove of my hand my hand muscles seemed to ache a little. I think I can relate to what you where saying now. you use the muscles in your hand differently with a skinnier or fatter neck depending on what your used too. Ya its a neck issue and it depends on what feels comfortable to your hand and how you fret or bend. If your standing up it also depends on how low or high you hang the guitar in front of you.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Congrats on the free guitar!

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

Heck yeah congrats
If you don't want it I'll make room for it here

 

[philthis]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

its just an epiphone Les Paul special. i will sell it here around the office for $100.00 I am buying a Super V blade runner for the Eric Johnson with a brass block $250. next I am getting 2- surfer 2 seymour duncan antiquitys for the neck and middle. Then a duncan Jb for the bridge. A low friction volume pot a mint pickguard with a shielded pickguard plate under that. I will save intact the Eric Johnson pickguard and pickups and the old tone arm. ya great guitar.......I am gunna put about $600 more into it and it should play like a beautiful surf guitar with my fender twins and an Exotic ep booster.

 

[Diminished Triad]

Re: Neck shape/profile to reduce hand cramp

I had the same problem for a long time. Most shapes and results are subjective and your hands adapt, but still, I have seen and experienced that a 7.25 radius fretboard and a Warmoth Fatback neck are the best combination. I personally prefer 1 and 10/16 wide nut but you should go 1 and 11/16 because the extra distance between/across strings will help with your larger hands.

Good luck!