Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

some_dude

Raging BB Gunologist
Here's a bit of back story....

Last year I bought this old Les Paul (1969 Deluxe, converted to humbuckers back in the 70s some time). It's a very middy guitar and it adds a harsh overtone to the top end frequencies.

At first I didn't recognize it to be the guitar. The overtone wasn't so obvious with cleans but with high gain it was brutal, so I assumed that maybe my ear was 'maturing' or something... that maybe I was 'outgrowing' high gain. So... after fighting my high gain heads for awhile I sold them off and bought a low gain Orange AD30.

Well, I ended up fighting with that one too. I eventually figured that it must be the lack of headroom or something, so I sold it and bought an AD140. I've I've just spent the last month fighting with it too.

I've tried alot of different things this past year... minimal treble, minimal presence, longer cables, different pickups (Gibson PAF, JB, Custom 5, 59, Super Distortion, EMG 81, 85, 60), different action, different string gauges, nickel strings, nickel plated steel strings... nothing helped. Hell, every overdrive pedal I've tried has sounded fine with every guitar except this one.... due to an over emphasized and harsh upper end.

As a final note of frustration I ripped the passive pickups out of it this past Thursday and jammed in a set of EMGs.... going for the whole "EMGs make everything sound the same" school of thought. Well, once again all I managed to do was prove that EMGs don't make everything sound the same.... 'cause it sounds like exactly the same guitar, only with EMGs in it.

To add insult in injury... I installed the Duncan that I'd just ripped out of the Gibson into my old Epi Les Paul (been collecting dust for the last year with no pickups in it) and it sounded awesome. Thick overdrive, thicker distortion.... and this is with a '59 bridge plugged strait into a into a low gain amp! It sounded exactly like I wanted the other Les Paul to sound. Even better in fact. I've never wanted to throw a Les Paul before.... but let me tell you, I did come close.

So, I don't know where to go from here. Can this be remedied? Should I simply accept that it's a dog and sell it? Or is there anything I can do to try to save it?

:banghead:
 
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Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

IMO, you got a dud....Just sell it and Get a better Paul:P

~Mitch~
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

I had to come to that sad realization with my RR-1 :(.

Once you sell it and grab something you're really happy with, you'll not regret it one bit.
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

you should do a search at the lpf..
i read that the abr-1 bridge wire can contribute to that high pitched rattle..
i had that problem with the overly trebly burstbucker pros..in my les paul..
a custom fixed it up..(or i would have always had to use the tone control and i dont like that wah sound when u turn it down too much..)
hope you get it fixed..
and please dont smash it..
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

I would try a bone nut and a Tone Pros bridge and lightweight tailpiece; and then make sure that the frets hae been properly levelled and crowned.

Just out of curiosity, is this one of the Norlin "pancake" bodies?

Bill
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

I would try a bone nut and a Tone Pros bridge and lightweight tailpiece; and then make sure that the frets hae been properly levelled and crowned.

Just out of curiosity, is this one of the Norlin "pancake" bodies?

Bill

Yes, though I think it might pre-date Norlin, and unlike most Norlins this is an extremely light weight Les Paul rather than your typical boat anchor.
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

Launch that sucker off the top of the vomit comet!


In my experiences... if I've dropped maybe a half-dozen or so 'good' sets of pickups into a plank... adjusted & set it up countless times and it ALWAYS sounds like krap plugged in then in reality, it's a dog.

Last one was a '92 reissue strat in sherwood green. Looked killer. Played GREAT. Sounded decent unplugged...


Plugged in though, it always sounded like ca-ca.


Went through like 8 or 9 sets of pickups before I found something that was 'halfway' decent... couple of friends convinced me to launch it.

Not missed.


Or, you could accept the fact that it's a 'unique' sounding instrument and learn to love it for what it is...

Find an application for it.
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

Sell that sucker off on e-bay. Some gear head with a Led Zeppelin fetish will pay some big money for it and then you can buy a nice American Fender Tele!!
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

Raise or wrap the tailpiece.

Try an aluminum tailpiece.

DO NOT use the '50s wiring.

Are the Black Beauties still there?
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

Raise or wrap the tailpiece.

Try an aluminum tailpiece.

DO NOT use the '50s wiring.

Are the Black Beauties still there?

You mean the caps? If so, then yes.

I've been talking to a buddy of mine who's pretty knowledgeable in the whole pickup/amplifier thing... between the two of us we've worked out that it might have been a combination of things acting together to give me this poor tone, 'cause acoustically the guitar is fine.

Anyway, I'm going to put a Duncan '59 in it since it's pretty much impossible to go wrong with one and my other LP is doing really well with it. This will let me benchmark both guitars using the same pickup and it'll really let me hear the differences between the two guitars to see if it really is the guitar or if it's something else.

How much you wanna sell it for?

Give me a month to work on it... but I'll probably EBay it for max return. It is a 69 Les Paul after all. :)
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

A tonepros bridge with graphtech saddles and an aluminum tailpiece fixed a lot of what sounds like a similar tone problem with my LP. I ended up going with 2 250k pots on the bridge pickup too. I'm still not thrilled with mine. I've played several more, but I havent been impressed enough by one yet to buy another.

I wish I knew a vintage Les Paul expert i could take with me when I shop for guitars. I don't know if I have ever really played a GREAT Les Paul. I know what to look for in a strat, but I don't have the same amount of experience with Pauls, can't find many on the shelves around here. Maybe my ears just don't like Les Pauls, but I doubt it, a lot of my favorite music was written by someone playing a LP.

When I lived in Louisville Kentucky there was a store called the GUITAR EMPORIUM which stocked dozens of high end PRS guitars. I really came to appreciate the consistant quality, and differences in tone of the different models, because I could play them side by side. Have to go back up there when I win the lottery..... Just wish there were a place like that that stocked 30 or 40 Les Pauls you could contrast and compare before taking the plunge.
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

Just use a long (20-25 ft) really crappy guitar cable to run the signal through. That should kill off any offending top end frequencies . . .
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

Get a measurement of the values of the pots, and the tone caps. Not what the caps and pots are marked. Find out what the actual values are.

If you know these things, you may be able to make changes to the guitar that that have an effect, where pickup changes failed.

Pete
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

I would try replacing some hardware for starters. Just nothing that can be put back. 1st I would try graphtech saddles as someone suggested. See how that goes with a regular or aluminum tailpiece. If that doesn't do it, sell it.
 
Re: Need help dealing with harsh overtone in a Les Paul

If it were me I'd embrace it. Install some Phat Cats, a Bigsby and a roller bridge and clang away.

Otherwise all the suggestions here can be appropriate. I would try different material bridges and tailpieces, and different pots. The 59 is probably a pretty safe bet at this point, and if nothing else I would wire the 59's straight to the jack, no pots at all. Then you'll know what you're listening to. You can hear what you're getting from the pickups straight to the amp. That might help you to determine how much of this phenomenon is in your wood.
 
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