Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

[hermetico]

Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Can you confirm that I am reading your diagram correctly, in that the black and bare wire from the bridge tripleshot is wired to the casing of the tone pot along with many other ground wires?

That's the only thing in your diagram that concerns me a little. When I look at Seymour Duncan's diagram (which of course does not have a blow switch on it) the black and white of the triple shots are connected to lugs of the dpdt switch, while the bare wire goes to ground. But in your diagram it appears that the black and bare BOTH are soldered to ground.

Please confirm.

Thanks

confirmed

if you are talking about this diagram: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2ts_1v_1t_phsp
Neck's hot (white) is being linked to bridge's negative (black), so the series follows this layout: Neck -> Bridge -> jack.
In my diagram, the series link is reversed: Bridge -> Neck -> jack. This is absolutely a must to be able to implement that bypass mod with a 4PDT on/on (instead of using a switch with more than 4 poles).
As said around here: "all paths lead to Roma" but... if you need to visit city X, city Y and city Z, maybe there is just one single path. This is the case.
There are no capricious decisions on my diagrams.:alcoholic

 

[hermetico]

Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

Look at this picture:



In pink, I'm showing you which lugs are connected when the 4PDT on/on is in standard mode and, the pull/pushes are pushed down.
Bridge's green goes directly to the triple-shot connection rule.
The other three conductors (white, black and red) go to the connection rule thru the 4PDT (so, we are doing a true-bypass wire-to-wire connection).

The triple shot works as follows:
G is always linked to negative (harness black).
B is always linked to positive (harness white).

R & W have 4 status
linked together, if in full humbucker mode (coils in series)
linked together and to negative (harness black), if split to one coil
linked together and to positive (harness white), if split to the other coil
R linked to B and positive (white) AND W linked to G and negative (black), if coils in parallel

In any case, consider it as a black-box. Whatever you switch inside the triple shot you will have two outputs: negative (black) and positive (white).
You can see that bridge's bare and triple-shot negative (black) should be soldered to pot's case (ground).
Bridge's hot (white) goes to the serializer switch but, since it is in "parallel" status, the white is linked to the bridge's input in that 3-way (pickups selector).
Therefore, bridge is ground and its hot goes to the 3-way.

The fourth pole of the 4PDT is just linking the output from 3-way to the input of volume (and tone, thru the cap).
So, whatever is being selected in the 3-way feeds the volume and tone controls.
Volume's output (center lug) is directly linked to jack's tip and, the volume pot is ground (right lug, to pot's case).
So, whatever it goes to the volume pot, will go to the jack, if the pot is rolled on.

What about the neck?.
Neck's conductors are directly wired to the triple shot's connection rule so, whichever we switch there will end in two wires: positive (white) and negative (black).
You can see that both go to the "phaser" switch.
Since we are in not-oop mode, the positive (white) should be assigned to hot (orange) and, the negative to negative (dark green).
You can see that the hot (orange) goes to the 3-way neck's input, thru the "serializer" switch.
The negative (dark green) is now in contact with the lower lug (dark blue) that is soldered to pot's case (ground).
So, we have neck's hot going to the input of the 3-way and, the pickup was ground.

So, we have a very standard situation which 4PDT in standard mode and, both pull/pushes pushed down.

If this doesn't work, you probably have some kind of shortcut.
Did you protected cap's legs with heat shrink tube or electrical tape?.
Can any of your hot lugs accidentally touch body' shield?.
Had any wire a large peeled section that could accidentally touch an unwanted close lug or shield?.
Had any wire a free strand that could accidentally touch an unwanted close lug or shield?.
Did you swapped hot and ground in jack' side?.
Did you wired anything else not shown on this diagram?.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

I confirmed the triple shots are factory wired correctly - white, black, bare. I removed the blow circuit and wired the pickup wires to the wires I have soldered to the triple shot harness. Therefore, the guitar circuit should operate, and I get no sound.

What has me baffled, is i successfully used the schematic available online to wire another guitar with a blow switch, and using a 6 pole, 2 throw rotary switch. Essentially, the White and the Bare pass through the rotary and return to the triple shot harness, regardless of whether the rotary is in A mode (normal guitar operation), or B mode (blow switch bridge humbucker to volume and tone). So, only the Red, Black, and Green take a different path dependant on the rotary switch, which is essentially what you are doing with the 4pdt. But Seymour Duncan's diagram does other things between the two pots and the switches, and different things with the black and white leads coming out of the triple shots. So on the 6-pole switch, I've got Bare, White, Green, Red, Black, and the 6th pole sends to the volume knob, in A-mode it receives the output of the 3 way toggle switch, and in Blow mode, it receives the Red wire which is the bridge pickup output.

I think I'm going to try that in this guitar and see if I can make it work.

EDIT: But, I just re-read your previous post. The only thing I haven't checked, is whether the jack is wired backwards. And that could cause this whole mess. In other words, the blow mode will work, but the advanced wiring will not. So, I will look at that tonight after work. As it stands at the moment, the blow switch is not in the circuit. The blow switch requires me to feed the pickup wires into the control cavity to the blow switch, and send another insulated cable containing 4 conductors and a bare wire back into the bridge pickup cavity, soldered to the triple shot, and then of course the 2 conductor shielded triple shot output cable comes back again into the control compartment. So, without the blow switch in the circuit, I can simply twist the colored pairs of the wires together, and I should get the normal operation with phasing and series/parallel, triple shots, and 3-way toggle. It's got to be the silly jack. I purchased this guitar from Craigslist and the previous owner told me he had a friend replace the pots....and perhaps the jack, in the process, and perhaps he wired it backwards, and with simple vol/tone, 3-way, it still worked properly, so no one knew the jack was wired backwards? Like I said, I will check tonight. Thanks for raising that point!!!

 

[rodzimguitar68]

Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

I got it working. I literally wired this guitar 7-8 times over the past 2 weeks.

It only worked in bypass mode. I disassembled all the wiring again and tested the continuity of the 3-way Les Paul toggle switch, and that was what the problem was the whole time. It was shorted. If I placed the toggle into treble, I could still get continuity between the treble and rhythm side of the switch. That was with no electronics or pickups installed in the guitar. So, perhaps the insulation was cut and grounding out somehow in the guitar body between the switch cavity and the control compartment. I replaced the wiring, and put everything back together and it worked.

In the end, I went with the Seymour Duncan wiring for master vol/master tone, and a 6 pole/2 throw rotary switch I had.

Thanks for your help. I learned not to assume the factory wiring is good. It probably was at one time, but maybe the process of installing the triple shots, I was pulling the wires through the cavities, and maybe cut through the insulation.

Oh well - it works FINALLY!!!!!

Now I can have whatever crazy triple shot, phase, serializer mode I want, and go to the bridge hum bucker with one flick.

I put a chicken head knob on it, to give me more leverage when I turn the knob than I would have with a smooth, round knob.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Need help wiring blower switch with Triple Shots

I got it working. I literally wired this guitar 7-8 times over the past 2 weeks.

It only worked in bypass mode. I disassembled all the wiring again and tested the continuity of the 3-way Les Paul toggle switch, and that was what the problem was the whole time. It was shorted. If I placed the toggle into treble, I could still get continuity between the treble and rhythm side of the switch. That was with no electronics or pickups installed in the guitar. So, perhaps the insulation was cut and grounding out somehow in the guitar body between the switch cavity and the control compartment. I replaced the wiring, and put everything back together and it worked.

In the end, I went with the Seymour Duncan wiring for master vol/master tone, and a 6 pole/2 throw rotary switch I had.

Thanks for your help. I learned not to assume the factory wiring is good. It probably was at one time, but maybe the process of installing the triple shots, I was pulling the wires through the cavities, and maybe cut through the insulation.

Oh well - it works FINALLY!!!!!

Now I can have whatever crazy triple shot, phase, serializer mode I want, and go to the bridge hum bucker with one flick.

I put a chicken head knob on it, to give me more leverage when I turn the knob than I would have with a smooth, round knob.

Well. I was 100% sure about my design so, i've imagined some issue in the parts or the wiring work.

Unfortunately, components doesn't seem so well built than 40 years ago...
I had a Fender 5-way super switch brand new installed and nothing was working as expected, to discover, after several days that one side of the switch had all the lugs bended, in a way that the lug for position 1 was contacting position 2, etc.

The wiring was complex enough and to re-do it was a pain. Now, I try components before start the job.