Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

[devolve42]

In a Strat with a typical 5-way switch, I have installed a Hot Rails SHR-1b in the bridge, an SSL-5 RW/RP in the middle, and a regular SSL-5 in the neck using a regular 5-way switch. I have wired it up following this diagram exactly: https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/1SCH_2S_5W_1V_2T_AS.jpg

Everything sounds tonally the way I expect it to, but in position 2 (bridge + middle) the 60hz hum is INCREDIBLY loud. It's like, instead of getting hum cancelling, I'm getting hum compounding.

Neck alone: mild, normal single-coil hum.

Neck + middle: no hum

Middle: mild, normal single-coil hum

Middle + bridge: MORE HUM THAN THE MIDDLE BY ITSELF

Bridge: No hum

My soldering skills are "OKAY" but probably not "GREAT", so I may have caused problems. I don't think it's a grounding problem since it's only noisy in that one switch position, but I'm certainly no expert.

Is this something I can fix, or is that just the nature of the beast?

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

In a Strat with a typical 5-way switch, I have installed a Hot Rails SHR-1b in the bridge, an SSL-5 RW/RP in the middle, and a regular SSL-5 in the neck using a regular 5-way switch. I have wired it up following this diagram exactly: https://www.seymourduncan.com/images/wiring-diagrams/1SCH_2S_5W_1V_2T_AS.jpg

Everything sounds tonally the way I expect it to, but in position 2 (bridge + middle) the 60hz hum is INCREDIBLY loud. It's like, instead of getting hum cancelling, I'm getting hum compounding.

Neck alone: mild, normal single-coil hum.

Neck + middle: no hum

Middle: mild, normal single-coil hum

Middle + bridge: MORE HUM THAN THE MIDDLE BY ITSELF

Bridge: No hum

My soldering skills are "OKAY" but probably not "GREAT", so I may have caused problems. I don't think it's a grounding problem since it's only noisy in that one switch position, but I'm certainly no expert.

Is this something I can fix, or is that just the nature of the beast?

The hum you are experiencing in Position 2 makes sense based on the Middle single coil being RWRP and the wiring diagram that you used has the Bridge pickup split so that the North coil is active. In Position 2 you are getting two coils thar are magnetically North. For hum-canceling, you need one coil to be the opposite magnetic polarity of the other.

Luckily the fix is relatively easy. We want to mod the wiring so that the South coil of the Bridge pickup is left active in Position 2 instead of the North coil.

To do this, swap the Bridge pickup wires around as follows.
1. Red wire = connect it where Black wire currently is
2. Join Green and Black wire together instead of Red and White. Connect Black and Green to where Red & White is currently connected.
3. Send White wire to Ground instead of Green.

What we are doing here is coverd in this Seymour Duncan coilsplitting options diagram - see below:



The active rail of the Bridge pickup will now be the one closest to the Bridge, where before it was the rail closest to the neck. The tone might be too shrill for your tastes. If that turns out to be the case, then simply reinstall the bridgw rails pickup so that it is rotated 180° around. Now the active coil in Position 2 will be facing the neck, not the bridge.

 

[devolve42]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

Thank you, this is immensely helpful. I was thinking I would need to change which coil was active but I had no idea how to specifically go about it.

One other question: without completely rewiring everything, is there a way I could connect the bridge pickup to the bottom tone control so it controls both the bridge and the middle? I've seen another diagram that does that but the rest of the wiring is different too and I'd rather not redo everything if I can just add a wire somewhere.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

Thank you, this is immensely helpful. I was thinking I would need to change which coil was active but I had no idea how to specifically go about it.

One other question: without completely rewiring everything, is there a way I could connect the bridge pickup to the bottom tone control so it controls both the bridge and the middle? I've seen another diagram that does that but the rest of the wiring is different too and I'd rather not redo everything if I can just add a wire somewhere.

It is only semi-possible to do so. This is due to the limitations of a standard 5 way switch. With a superswitch, you could do it without tradeoffs.

In this case, the tradeoff is that Position 3 (middle pickup by itself) will have no tone control active. This will make that position more trebly sounding. This particular mod is one of the most popular ones actually for Strat players with a standard 5 way switch.

To do this, you would move the wire that i have highlighted with the red hashmarks, to the switch lug that I marked with the purple hashmark.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

Another option is to swap the Neck and Middle pickups (both position and on the 5-way). Since you are soldering anyway, the solution above is easier, especially if you’ve cut the wires to length already.

EDIT - I looked at the diagram, each tone control needs to be dedicated.

 

[Jack_TriPpEr]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

Another option is to swap the Neck and Middle pickups (both position and on the 5-way). Since you are soldering anyway, the solution above is easier, especially if you’ve cut the wires to length already.

EDIT - I looked at the diagram, each tone control needs to be dedicated.

The first part about swapping around the neck and middle pickups is pretty brilliant, out-of-the-box type thinking. Kudos!

Regarding your second part about each tone pot needs to be dedicated, could you clarify further what you mean?

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

The first part about swapping around the neck and middle pickups is pretty brilliant, out-of-the-box type thinking. Kudos!

Regarding your second part about each tone pot needs to be dedicated, could you clarify further what you mean?

I originally posted the typical method to use the second tone control for both Middle and Bridge with a jumper on the 5-way, but I see that one pole is used for pickup selection and the other pole for splitting. (As opposed to typical Strat wiring where one pole is for selecting the active tone control)

 

[Ivan75]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

Another option is to swap the Neck and Middle pickups (both position and on the 5-way). Since you are soldering anyway, the solution above is easier, especially if you’ve cut the wires to length already.

EDIT - I looked at the diagram, each tone control needs to be dedicated.

I have another situation with my Hot Rails in the bridge - I don't want to split it and I very much like the 2nd position but I'd like to have it hum cancelling (middle+bridge).

Could that be achieved with swapping neck and middle single coils?

Thanks!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

I have another situation with my Hot Rails in the bridge - I don't want to split it and I very much like the 2nd position but I'd like to have it hum cancelling (middle+bridge).

Could that be achieved with swapping neck and middle single coils?

Thanks!

What are the other pickups in the guitar?

 

[Ivan75]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

Stock Fender single coils, 2004. Am. Series Strat. Middle is RWRP. So I'm suspecting I'll have the out of phase issue?

Tapatalk

 

[jeremy]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

you cannot have a hot rails in series and a single coil cancel hum. you need to split the hotrails in order to cancel hum with the single coil

 

[Ivan75]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

That's OK but will I get it right by swapping neck and middle pups?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

yes, usually you need to swap the neck and middle pups to get them in phase with the hot rail, or you could flip the black and green wires on the hotrail which should do the same thing

 

[Ivan75]

Re: Need help with Hot Rails and SSL-5 RW/RP

Ok great, thanks!