Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

cyberpunk409

cyberpunk409

New member
hey guys, i just wired my les paul to Seymour Duncan's online JIMMY PAGE wiring schematic....

i.e. this one
302668283.jpg


anyways... if anyone else has attempted this EXACT version (please note, the Jimmy Page wiring schematics vary from webpage to webpage, i'm talking about THIS SCHEMATIC ONLY), please let me know what is meant to happen to the overall sound when:

- 3 way switch set to: TREBLE (i.e. bridge p'up)
- all les paul four knobs (vol and tone) maxed out on 10
- NECK TONE KNOB pulled up (all others down)

i know it's meant to put the neck and bridge pickup in series together... but when i set it to what i just mentioned, i lose 90% of volume (i.e. goes from being loud to too quiet to hear unless you really drive the amp - surely not what's meant to happen?)

If i flick the 3-way switch to middle or neck pup instead, and leave everything else the same, there is no volume change (i.e. I retain full volume).

Hope someone out there can please help me :(

thanks
 
Last edited:
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

btw...

yes, i have installed 4 push/pull pots

yes, both pups (SD'59 and SD JB) have 4 conducter wires

yes, it happens at other volume/tone setting other than JUST "10", i was just giving a universal example

yes, everything else seems to be working OK with the way i've wired it

thanks
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

I'm surprised that you get any volume at all. When you put the neck and bridge into series, it uses the neck black for output. You need to have the 3-way in the "neck" position. Probably, what you're hearing is some bleed-through, from the wiring.

On the other hand, if it still doesn't sound right when in the middle or neck position, then you have something wired wrong. Just go back and double-check everything. I make mistakes on simple wiring sometimes. The JP wiring is a playground for Murphy's Law. ;)
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

artie, you are a champ for answering so quickly and putting my mind at ease.

like i said, i lose almost all volume, i can only really hear something if i kick in a distortion pedal. probably just some bleed-through like you said.



what about when you engage the BRIDGE TONE KNOB? i get full volume in all 3 switch positions, is THAT normal?

last question...

I understand "Splitting coils" (essentially making a humbucker into a "single coil"), but what does

- putting pickups into series, and
- putting pickups out of phase with each other,

actually mean in laymans terms?

i just spent the better part of 5 hours putting this ***** of a schematic together in real life and would like to know what i've accomplished.

thanks again
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

cyberpunk409 said:
what about when you engage the BRIDGE TONE KNOB? i get full volume in all 3 switch positions, is THAT normal?
Click to expand...

The bridge tone switch only reverses the phase of the bridge pup. You should get a noticable drop in volume, and a weak "tinny" sound when the 3-way is in the middle only. If you don't get that, then that still points to something being wired not quite right.

cyberpunk409 said:
last question...

I understand "Splitting coils" (essentially making a humbucker into a "single coil"), but what does

- putting pickups into series, and
- putting pickups out of phase with each other,

actually mean in laymans terms?
Click to expand...

Splitting: A humbucker is made from two single coils. "Splitting" simply means that you've turned one coil off. That gives you a psuedo-single coil tone. Not exact, but "nice".

Phase: When the string moves towards the pickup, it generates a positive voltage. When it moves a way, it generates a negative voltage. If you have two pickups on at the same time, those two voltages compliment each other. If one pickup is connected out-of-phase, when one voltage is going positive, the other is going negative. The two voltages cancel each other. Since only the fundamental frequencies will be closely matched, only they cancel. The harmonics don't match each other, (due to slight differences in the string vibration thats picked up by the different positions), so they don't cancel. Thus, you still get the high-frequency content.

On an interesting side note, the voltages from two different pickups don't add when in-phase. But they do subtract when out-of-phase. ;)
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

hi

regarding out of phase in laymans terms:
i would liken it to a half-open wah!
does this make sense?

a good example of out of phase sound that everyone knows is
the intro for "money for nothing"

btw, hi artie, my LP wiring is up and running again,
I had all sorts of noise/cut out problems until I read that i should have used
shielded wires for the long runs to the switch (d'oh)

another thing learned!

rgds

4
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

thanks guys, it's all making a little more sense now :)

as for putting neck and bridge p'ups "in series" together, what exactly does that mean and what changes to sound should occur?

thanks
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

When you put two pickups in series, the voltage does add. You get 3 db more output, but at a loss of harmonic content. You lose harmonics. You might define that as "definition" or "air". Everything is a trade-off. Thats life. :D
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

cyberpunk409 said:
as for putting neck and bridge p'ups "in series" together, what exactly does that mean and what changes to sound should occur?
Click to expand...

It's like a humbucker with the coils in "series"; current running from one coil then to the other, which gives maximum output. When switched to parallel (current running simultaneously to the coils), there's a drop in volume, and a boost in treble & clarity.

Normally when the toggle is in the middle position on a twin HB guitar, they're linked in parallel, so they are louder individually than when on together. Linking them in series (neck tone pot puleld up) kicks up the output, and makes a much darker tone (just like it does with a humbucker, going from parallel to series). To me, two HB's in series together isn't that usable, but with the neck in coil cut (neck volume pot pulled up), and the bridge in HB mode, the sound isn't so dark, and still has the power boost. Great for solos. PU's linked in series are also nice when both PU's are in coil cut mode, and for phase (bridge tone pot pulled up), to compensate for the otherwise reduced volume.

So why do manufacturers automatically link PU's in parallel on hundreds of thousands of guitars? Why not some with a parallel/series option? What would be very nice is a factory P-90/HB guitar with a parallel/series option. That would get things out of the same old routine.

Disclaimer: if I messed up any of the above explanations, Artie will bail me out. I'm no electrician. Hell, I'm an accountant.
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

ok, you've all been so helpful so far :) just some final questions (i promise).

1. am i right in assuming that putting both p'ups out of phase with each other and putting both in series, only applies when the toggle switch is in the middle and both p'ups are being used???

or can you use the "out of phase" and "series" options with only the bridge OR neck pickup selected?

2. when "out of phase" or "Series" is selected and both pickups in use, and both volume knobs at 10, why does the sound get LOUDER when i roll just one of the volumes down to around 8 or 7 ??? normal?

thanks... i wanna be able to get the most out of this wiring scheme :)
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

blueman335 said:
Hell, I'm an accountant.
Click to expand...

That explains why everythng you said all adds up. :)
Btw: I believe that PRS does do coils in series on one of their rotary switches. Its the same thing I do with my virtual 3rd humbucker mod.

cyberpunk409 said:
1. am i right in assuming that putting both p'ups out of phase with each other and putting both in series, only applies when the toggle switch is in the middle and both p'ups are being used???
Click to expand...

The JP wiring doesn't put either pickup out-of-phase with itself. Only OOP with each other. You must have one thing OOP with another for it to work.

cyberpunk409 said:
or can you use the "out of phase" and "series" options with only the bridge OR neck pickup selected?
Click to expand...

If you change the wiring so that one pickup is OOP with itself, (probably a bad idea), then you could use the selector in any position. If done the way the wiring is now, you can only have OOP in two situations: pups in parallel, 3-way in the middle, or pups in series, 3-way in the neck position. (Possibly in the middle also.)

cyberpunk409 said:
2. when "out of phase" or "Series" is selected and both pickups in use, and both volume knobs at 10, why does the sound get LOUDER when i roll just one of the volumes down to around 8 or 7 ??? normal?
Click to expand...

Think about it. If one pickup is generating a signal that cancels the other, and then you reduce that cancelling signal . . . you get less cancellation. Ergo, it gets louder.
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

cool, thanks for the info.

well it seems i wired my LP to Jimmy Page specs correctly the FIRST time round. others seem to be having difficulties. It's really not that hard as long as you follow the schematic and make sure wires aren't shorting other wires out (a multimetre is perfect for checking this).

Looks like i'm going to have to play around with the different possibilities to see which i like and which are useless.

Either way, i can still get the regular LP settings plus MANY MANY more, i'd recommend it to anyone!!!
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

ArtieToo said:
...what you're hearing is some bleed-through, from the wiring...
Click to expand...

if i have the toggle set to "RHYTHM" (i.e. just the neck p'up), and i set the neck pickup volume knob to ZERO, but the bridge Vol. knob is at greater than zero, then i can still hear (quite clearly) music coming out my amp.

This also occurs with the toggle in "TREBLE" and the bridge volume at ZERO, whilst the neck volume is at anything greater than zero.

Why is so much signal bleeding through the wiring?

Have i used cheap pots? not soldered well enough? used cheap wiring? etc???
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

Ok, just want to clarify two things:

1. With both volumes on zero, you get nothing out, regardless of where the 3-way is set?

2. With the neck volume on zero, and the bridge volume on "10", the volume is much louder with the 3-way on "bridge" than it is when on "neck"?
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

by the way, thanks for all your help so far artie!

your status should be bumped to admin or something! :)
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

cyberpunk409 said:
your status should be bumped to admin or something! :)
Click to expand...

Nah! The admins have to do real work around here. :D

From what you're describing, it sounds like it might be normal. Like you may be simply getting some bleed-through from some wires that are too close to each other. (I know, hard to avoid in a guitar cavity.)

You might try moving the wires around a little bit and then securing them so they can't move. I'll think on this some more, but not sure what else to suggest.
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

have been patiently anticipating your reflection on the matter artie... i'm getting a bit of this "bleed-through", and as a result can't get that cool tremolo effect you get on a LP when 1 pickup is at full volume and the other at zero, and you flick the toggle switch up and down quickly... this is because the p'up that is at zero is somehow 'capturing' (for lack of a better word) a slight signal from the other pickup which is at volume.

I just wanna know if this is normal, or perhaps i have used cheap wires? I used any plastic coated/shielded wires i had lying around... dunno if thats why?
 
Re: Need help with Jimmy Page wiring please

cyberpunk409 said:
hey guys, i just wired my les paul to Seymour Duncan's online JIMMY PAGE wiring schematic....

i.e. this one
302668283.jpg


anyways... if anyone else has attempted this EXACT version (please note, the Jimmy Page wiring schematics vary from webpage to webpage, i'm talking about THIS SCHEMATIC ONLY), please let me know what is meant to happen to the overall sound when:
Click to expand...

I was wondering is this schematic the same as this one... I think it looks different:

JP_wiring.png


which one is better and why?
 
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