Need help with wiring for pickups.

[Navin]

The Guitar: Les Paul Studio 2011
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?280315-Pickups-for-Les-Paul-Studio-2011

The Pickups: WLH set + piezo (LR Baggs preferred but open to Fishman, Graphtech or anything else).

The Problem: I want a stock look (aka no 5th Pot).

Where I am stuck: I am going to order a set of push-pull pots and a pair of Triple Shots

I can use either the push-pull pots or the triple shots to give my series-parallel-single coil-phase sounds. Which is the preferred method?

In either case I expect to use the other set (triple shot or push pull pots) of switches to control the gain of the piezo in a stepped manner - not continuos but say in 4 steps 0db, -3db, -6db and -10db.

Is this possible? In theory what needs to be done is insert a series of resistors with each switch in each push-pull pot. We have a total of 4 push-pull pots to work with.

I am open to using any piezo system.

One last question, I have seen that many of these piezo systems come with a small preamp. How does one fit this preamp into a Les Paul?

After all if someone can do what is in the link below, my requirement looks pretty tame.
http://tonefiend.com/pickups/the-pagey-project-phase-2an-insanely-versatile-les-paul/

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

The Pickups: WLH set + piezo (LR Baggs preferred but open to Fishman, Graphtech or anything else).

The Problem: I want a stock look (aka no 5th Pot).

Where I am stuck: I am going to order a set of push-pull pots and a pair of Triple Shots

I can use either the push-pull pots or the triple shots to give my series-parallel-single coil-phase sounds. Which is the preferred method?

Preferred will depend on whether you need to switch sounds while music is playing or if you set up a sound and use it throughout the music. And also your playing/picking/strumming style - some guys have commented they have a tendency to accidentally strike the triple-shot switches while playing.

In either case I expect to use the other set (triple shot or push pull pots) of switches to control the gain of the piezo in a stepped manner - not continuos but say in 4 steps 0db, -3db, -6db and -10db.

I haven't heard of controlling the output of a piezo system this way. Normally they either have their own onboard preamp, or you need to send the piezo signal to some outboard preamp/controller.

Another option would be to use smaller pots/controls for the piezo attached under the pickguard (assuming you have one).

 

[Navin]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

Preferred will depend on whether you need to switch sounds while music is playing or if you set up a sound and use it throughout the music. And also your playing/picking/strumming style - some guys have commented they have a tendency to accidentally strike the triple-shot switches while playing.

I haven't heard of controlling the output of a piezo system this way. Normally they either have their own onboard preamp, or you need to send the piezo signal to some outboard preamp/controller.

Another option would be to use smaller pots/controls for the piezo attached under the pickguard (assuming you have one).

Thanks Beau, ok let me put it this way...

Which of the two options would be better suited to be used as a "trim" level for the piezo?

Yes almost all piezo systems have a preamp and while these are pretty small, how does one fit one in a Les Paul? i fully intend to try and fit one but would love pointers on how or where one can install it? These preamps have preset pots while allow you to set the gain on the preamp to match the piezo level to the mags. But there are instances where one wants to turn the piezo down and usually this is done using a small pot but I could not find one (on Stew Mac) that would fit under the pick guard. Hence i figured if I can trim the piezo using small resistors (a pot is just a variable resistor) I would have some rudimentary control ( better than none).

I am open to any suggestions.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

Triple Shots select coils and determine series/parallel linkage. This is all that the PCB tracks allow. Phase reversal and series/parallel connection between two pickups has to be done with additional DPDT switches - in this instance, by means of push/pull pots.

Control of the piezo level could be via one of the four control pots already in the guitar. Some piezo systems permit total control via an external foot controller. Since some would argue that the piezo signal deserves its own discreet path and amplification, this route might be the best way to proceed.

 

[Navin]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

Triple Shots select coils and determine series/parallel linkage. This is all that the PCB tracks allow. Phase reversal and series/parallel connection between two pickups has to be done with additional DPDT switches - in this instance, by means of push/pull pots.

Thanks. I could use push-pull volume pots for the phase and series/parallel. This leaves me with the following options.

a. Having a master tone for the mag pickups and using a second push-pull pot to switch on and control the level of the piezo
b. Using a foot control as shown in the link http://pietrosquared.wordpress.com/two-voice-stereo-guitar-a-primer/
c. Follow the instructions here http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/custom-shop/198781-fishman-powerbridge.html

What makes most sense for a clean stock-look install?

 

[Navin]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

Ok Guys I need a little help. Ok a whole lotta help. I got a Whole Lotta Humbucker (Neck) and Pearly Gates (Bridge). I know many prefer the WLH set but my son wanted a Pearly Gates bridge as I obliged...anyway the problem is with the wiring. I also got a LR Baggs T Bridge and a Ghost Acoustic Phonic preamp (since the X-bridge preamp does NOT fit in a Les Paul). http://www.graphtech.com/docs/default-document-library/acousti-phonic-with-quickswitch.pdf?sfvrsn=0

From what I understand We have to sacrifice the Neck Tone control to allow for a volume control for the Piezo pickup.

The Magnetic pickups go then use a common tone control (or concentric pots if one needs separate tone controls).
The signal from the Magnetic pickups first passes through the Volume and Tone controls then through the 3 way Les Paul switchis then fed to the Acoustic Phonic Preamp.
The Piezo signal is also fed to the Acoustic Phonic Preamp and the preamp then is able to switch from Mag to Both to Piezo and control the volume of the Piezo. I am told this requires a quick switch and CANNOT be done with just a simple ON-OFF push-pull pot.

Next I made a list of what I need to do with the wiring.

Original neck volume will be used for magnetic neck volume and all 4 mag coils in series (pull)
Original bridge volume will be used as magnetic bridge volume and bridge and neck out of phase (pull) basically this reverses phase of bridge pickup so that in either parallel or series mode pickups are out of phase with each other when both are on (3 way switch in center)
Original neck tone will be used as piezo volume – piezo pre amp bypass (pull)
Original bridge tone will be used a common tone control for the magnetic pickups. If I feel the need for individual controls we can replace with this with concentric tone control later

and lastly Series/Parallel/Split with the Seymour triple-shot rings...aka (this is standard triple shot wiring)
Neck Triple Shot Switch: Standard Series Humbucker, Parallel Humbucker, Screw Coil Only, Slug Coil Only
Bridge Triple Shot Switch: Standard Series Humbucker, Parallel Humbucker, Screw Coil Only, Slug Coil Only

I found a wiring diagram that does much of what I need to do on the link below but has no room for the piezo switch
http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1026607


I do not need to reverse phase within each pickup so I figure I could save those two switches and use one for the piezo. Then combine the tones into one master tone on the bridge tone and use the neck tone for the piezo volume.

Q1: How do I use a push - pull switch instead of the quick switch? A push-pull switch is DPDT while a quick switch is not right?
Q2: What changes do I need to make to the schematic attached to eliminate the Neck and Bridge phase switching but retain the Master Phase and Master Series switching?

Is there something I am missing?

Thanks Guys

Edit: Will this work? At least for the magnetic pickup. How do I use a common tone?


I still need help on replacing the quick switch with a push pull.

Thanks Again.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

In my opinion, the corner-carvers forum diagram is total mind****. I see little point in accessing every possible coil petmutation if several of them are crap. Adapt from the Duncan schematic.

 

[Navin]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

Preferred will depend on whether you need to switch sounds while music is playing

Thanks Beau,

I may be wrong but I believe the Duncan schematic I attached to my last post might cover most obvious options. I see no reason to put pickups within the same humbucker in/out of phase as the pickups are so close. If I can use the a common (bridge) tone control for the mags and free up the neck tone control for the piezo I could use the push-pull switch on the bridge tone control for the mid/dark switch on the Acoustic Phonic preamp.

There are some sound samples here
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/epi...bute-plus-mods-ghost-oop-etc.html#post6227626

Adapt from the Duncan schematic.

Thanks Funk,

I have ordered a concentric pot but given that I live in India and Allparts does not ship to India I will only get in December and if not then maybe March 2015. Till then I hope to use a common tone control. How does one modify the Duncan schematic to do that?

 

[CraigC]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

I wired this up and I have an odd situation. when i switch to the neck pickup and pull the pot that switches to parallel, I get no sound from my neck pickup. So, I need a little help too. What could go wrong that would cause that to occur?

Ok Guys I need a little help. Ok a whole lotta help. I got a Whole Lotta Humbucker (Neck) and Pearly Gates (Bridge). I know many prefer the WLH set but my son wanted a Pearly Gates bridge as I obliged...anyway the problem is with the wiring. I also got a LR Baggs T Bridge and a Ghost Acoustic Phonic preamp (since the X-bridge preamp does NOT fit in a Les Paul). http://www.graphtech.com/docs/default-document-library/acousti-phonic-with-quickswitch.pdf?sfvrsn=0

From what I understand We have to sacrifice the Neck Tone control to allow for a volume control for the Piezo pickup.

The Magnetic pickups go then use a common tone control (or concentric pots if one needs separate tone controls).
The signal from the Magnetic pickups first passes through the Volume and Tone controls then through the 3 way Les Paul switchis then fed to the Acoustic Phonic Preamp.
The Piezo signal is also fed to the Acoustic Phonic Preamp and the preamp then is able to switch from Mag to Both to Piezo and control the volume of the Piezo. I am told this requires a quick switch and CANNOT be done with just a simple ON-OFF push-pull pot.

Next I made a list of what I need to do with the wiring.

Original neck volume will be used for magnetic neck volume and all 4 mag coils in series (pull)
Original bridge volume will be used as magnetic bridge volume and bridge and neck out of phase (pull) basically this reverses phase of bridge pickup so that in either parallel or series mode pickups are out of phase with each other when both are on (3 way switch in center)
Original neck tone will be used as piezo volume – piezo pre amp bypass (pull)
Original bridge tone will be used a common tone control for the magnetic pickups. If I feel the need for individual controls we can replace with this with concentric tone control later

and lastly Series/Parallel/Split with the Seymour triple-shot rings...aka (this is standard triple shot wiring)
Neck Triple Shot Switch: Standard Series Humbucker, Parallel Humbucker, Screw Coil Only, Slug Coil Only
Bridge Triple Shot Switch: Standard Series Humbucker, Parallel Humbucker, Screw Coil Only, Slug Coil Only

I found a wiring diagram that does much of what I need to do on the link below but has no room for the piezo switch
http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1026607
View attachment 57579

I do not need to reverse phase within each pickup so I figure I could save those two switches and use one for the piezo. Then combine the tones into one master tone on the bridge tone and use the neck tone for the piezo volume.

Q1: How do I use a push - pull switch instead of the quick switch? A push-pull switch is DPDT while a quick switch is not right?
Q2: What changes do I need to make to the schematic attached to eliminate the Neck and Bridge phase switching but retain the Master Phase and Master Series switching?

Is there something I am missing?

Thanks Guys

Edit: Will this work? At least for the magnetic pickup. How do I use a common tone?
View attachment 57581

I still need help on replacing the quick switch with a push pull.

Thanks Again.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

I wired this up and I have an odd situation. when i switch to the neck pickup and pull the pot that switches to parallel, I get no sound from my neck pickup. So, I need a little help too. What could go wrong that would cause that to occur?

I don't know which 'this' you wired up, as there are multiple diagrams in this thread, but my guess is the switch position you think is parallel is actually series and your pickup selector isn't in the middle position when you switched it. But that's a guess since it's not clear what wiring you are referring to.

 

[CraigC]

2 Triple Shots, 2 Humbuckers, 2 Vol, 2 Tone with Phase switch, and Series/Parallel

2 Triple Shots, 2 Humbuckers, 2 Vol, 2 Tone with Phase switch, and Series/Parallel

I don't know which 'this' you wired up, as there are multiple diagrams in this thread, but my guess is the switch position you think is parallel is actually series and your pickup selector isn't in the middle position when you switched it. But that's a guess since it's not clear what wiring you are referring to.

Yes. Sorry. I'm new to the forum and I'm not sure what is referenced and what is not. I'll try to be more clear.

I did the "2 Triple Shots, 2 Humbuckers, 2 Vol, 2 Tone with Phase switch, and Series/Parallel switch" wire harness. I'll try to copy the diagram here:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57581&d=1411646399

So, yes, you're probably right. But, let me be more specific. I don't get sound when the series/parallel dpdt push/pull pot is in the up position, and the toggle switch is in the bridge position. My first thought was that it's probably what should happen. If that's the series position, then moving the toggle to one pickup or the other should break the circuit. But, I get sound from the neck pickup, which doesn't make sense to me. To my thinking, either both pickups should be dead when a single pickup is activated (bridge or neck) or neither should. But, that's not what I get.

Also, I get sound changes from the phase dpdt push/pull pot on just bridge, just neck, or both activated. That is, toggle up, down, or middle.

I have checked, double checked, and triple checked the wiring. I'm pretty sure that I have it as shown in the diagram.

Clearly, I'm new to this, and I need some insight from you guys who have more experience.

 

[beaubrummels]

Need help with wiring for pickups.

When the pickup selector is in the middle position, phase is normal, and the series switch is active, if you tap the pickup adjustable screws (the ones under the strings) with a screwdriver the neck makes a sound through the amp but the bridge does not?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

If you're talking about switching to 1 pickup only when the series switch is engaged....then yes you'll get no sound as 1 pickup is routed into the other - which has been de-selected.

As to the phase + tone shift....this is interesting. It should do nothing of course to the neck at all, and should only affect the two pickups combined. Is this when the parallel setting or series setting is selected

 

[CraigC]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

When the pickup selector is in the middle position, phase is normal, and the series switch is active, if you tap the pickup adjustable screws (the ones under the strings) with a screwdriver the neck makes a sound through the amp but the bridge does not?

No. Actually in the middle position, both pickups make a sound when I do the touch test you describe above.

The neck pickup responds when the toggle switch is in the middle position and the up position. That's regardless of any other setting (series/parallel or phase). And, indeed the sound that the pickup makes changes when the push pulls are activated. It sounds like the neck pickup gives 3 distinctly different sounds out of 5 push/pull positions.

The series/parallel push pull acts like a kill switch for the bridge pickup. So, with the bridge pickup selected with the toggle switch, I get sound with the phase switch active or inactive. With the parallel/series switch in the up position, I get no sound from the bridge pickup.

 

[CraigC]

Re: Need help with wiring for pickups.

If you're talking about switching to 1 pickup only when the series switch is engaged....then yes you'll get no sound as 1 pickup is routed into the other - which has been de-selected.

As to the phase + tone shift....this is interesting. It should do nothing of course to the neck at all, and should only affect the two pickups combined. Is this when the parallel setting or series setting is selected

See I thought so too, but why would I still get sound on the neck pickup by it's self when in series setting but not the bridge? If it's really series, wouldn't switching to either neck or bridge alone break the circuit? Essentially series should only work when both pickups are selected. Right?