Need more clean head room

[Rockstar216]

I have some relatively very big gigs coming up and will playing some large venues that holds people in the thousands and thinking about either renting out a rig OR trading in and upgrading or Just put it in the contract rider the amp I need.

I currently use a Blackstar HT40 1x12 combo It's a great amp for what it is but when I start to push the volume the cleans start to break up more then I would like and it doesn't help that I use med output buckers a C8 and PGn. Im thinking maybe I need a 100 watt head and either 2x12 or 4x12 cab to help keep it clean awhile longer.

What amp either combo or head and cab would you recommend my only requirement is two channels clean/drive. So NO TWINS please.

Im looking at getting a Blackstar 100watt head with cab since I like their stuff but i'm open to other recommendations.

 

[CTN]

Re: Need more clean head room

Are you gonna be playing without your cab mic'd up to the PA?

part of knowing what you're gonna need for the gig is knowing what the venue has in terms of equipment. If they're big enough that you have a rider, chances are that they'll have a PA, and you should be able to do just fine with a 40W amp, as long as the PA is powerful enough to project the required volume to fill the venue.

 

[Grindspine]

Re: Need more clean head room

^ Like CTN said above, micing to a PA will probably take care of it.

However, if you need more clean headroom even for practice, does your Blackstar have a extension speaker output? If it does, you could always run your combo amp out to a 4x12 extension cabinet instead of the internal speaker. Going through a 2x12 (of same overall impedence) should yield about a 3 db increase in sound. Going out to a 4x12 instead should give you another 3 db.

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Need more clean head room

Try a very efficient 4x12. The extra speakers will net you about 6dB more headroom, even more if the cab's speakers are more efficient than what is in the combo.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Need more clean head room

They can either Mic it or use the emulated out that comes built in also the way my combo is set up once you use the emulated out your cab basically turns into your onstage monitor along with what ever other monitor they have for you. I usually don't care about hearing the band in my monitor as long as I can hear myself i'm happy. The problem is sometimes the stage vol gets so loud that when I push the amp the cleans start to suffer. If my cab is propped up on a stand so it's pointed at my ears I can manage the vol properly but when it's on the floor blasting my shins it's hard to tell if my sound is actually clear or not, or to loud or not.

As far as having a PA yea they will definitely have one but I don't always trust the sound man or engineer.

I have three outlets for extension cabs 1 outlet for 1x16 ohms, and two outlets for 1x8 or 2x16 ohms I'm not sure if a 4x12 cab would match up right or not?

 

[CTN]

Re: Need more clean head room

As long as the ohmage matches up and the power ratings exceed or match your amp (ie you don't want to put a 40W amp into a 1x12 cab that can only handle 25W), you'll be fine running any kind of cab.

Consider asking for a 4x12 cab or a full stack if need be, you shouldn't need another amp. You won't need to turn up as much to get the same volume as you do with your 1x12 speaker, because more speakers pushing more air = more volume even if the volume setting on your amp doesn't change.

And then get them to mic the cab(s).

100W is only really necessary when you're playing huge clubs without being mic'd up.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Need more clean head room

So the easiest solution looks like running another cab and using the combo as the head. If I can find a 2x12 or 4x12 cab to match or sound good ill ask the venue to provide it.

 

[CTN]

Re: Need more clean head room

Marshall or Mesa cabs are usually pretty widely available. I'd go with a 1960AV (vintage 30s) if I was going marshall, and whatever Mesa cab will be fine too. They'll both sound fine with the blackstar.

 

[Laughing Kookaburra]

Re: Need more clean head room

If my cab is propped up on a stand so it's pointed at my ears I can manage the vol properly but when it's on the floor blasting my shins it's hard to tell if my sound is actually clear or not, or to loud or not.

As far as having a PA yea they will definitely have one but I don't always trust the sound man or engineer.

Then bring a stand. As far as the sound guy goes, you may want to work on that when you arrive at the venue. Touch base with the sound crew ASAP upon getting there.

Good luck!

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Need more clean head room

Then, bring a stand. As far as the sound guy goes, well, you may want to work on that when you arrive at the venue.Touch base with the guy when you arrive.

I plan on buying a amp stand this week I was trying to wait till GC has a sale or something

 

[IM4Tone]

Re: Need more clean head room

Are you gonna be playing without your cab mic'd up to the PA?

part of knowing what you're gonna need for the gig is knowing what the venue has in terms of equipment. If they're big enough that you have a rider, chances are that they'll have a PA, and you should be able to do just fine with a 40W amp, as long as the PA is powerful enough to project the required volume to fill the venue.

They can either Mic it or use the emulated out that comes built in also the way my combo is set up once you use the emulated out your cab basically turns into your onstage monitor along with what ever other monitor they have for you. I usually don't care about hearing the band in my monitor as long as I can hear myself i'm happy. The problem is sometimes the stage vol gets so loud that when I push the amp the cleans start to suffer. If my cab is propped up on a stand so it's pointed at my ears I can manage the vol properly but when it's on the floor blasting my shins it's hard to tell if my sound is actually clear or not, or to loud or not.

That's the first problem to 'fix'.

As far as having a PA yea they will definitely have one but I don't always trust the sound man or engineer.

And that's the second

I have three outlets for extension cabs 1 outlet for 1x16 ohms, and two outlets for 1x8 or 2x16 ohms I'm not sure if a 4x12 cab would match up right or not?

So the easiest solution looks like running another cab and using the combo as the head. If I can find a 2x12 or 4x12 cab to match or sound good ill ask the venue to provide it.

Don't add to the problem, be a part of 'fixing' it.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Need more clean head room

what speaker are you running?
you might find that a quartet of v30s will make it seem a lot louder

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Need more clean head room

If I can get the stand I might not need to get the extension cab cause If I can get the speaker pointed at ear level I can keep the vol where I need it to be. Enough to get the cab to rumble and feel lively but not break up and distort. But I still might invest in a extension cab just to have as a back up along with replacing the stock speaker with something a lil more clearer and high efficiency.

 

[LReese]

Re: Need more clean head room

Ask this guy -

modified for 'More POWER'... Grunt, grunt, grunt....

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Need more clean head room

what speaker are you running?
you might find that a quartet of v30s will make it seem a lot louder

My combo is a 1x12 and has the stock celestion 70/80. It's not a bad speaker but I know their their are way better out their. I've been looking at other speakers but not really intent on buying at the moment. Are their other brands besides celestion and Eminence, messa boogie?

 

[TheLivingDead]

Re: Need more clean head room

Yo you need to go post in your winning the Zephyrs thread bro!

NEEDS MOAR ACCEPTANCE SPEECH

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Need more clean head room

My combo is a 1x12 and has the stock celestion 70/80. It's not a bad speaker but I know their their are way better out their. I've been looking at other speakers but not really intent on buying at the moment. Are their other brands besides celestion and Eminence, messa boogie?

Yeh there are lots of companies. Ive had good luck with eminence and weber. If you go to the eminence site, youll find the efficiency ratings of all of the speakers on there. Every extra decibel of efficiency will make a difference in your case. Just be aware that different manufacturers do their testing slightly differently so while you can compare efficiency between models by the same manufacturer, dont compare them between manufacturers. A v30 is 2db louder than your seventy 80 according to the celestion website - plus it has a very present, cutting tone. The g12k100 is a bit more powerful and has a bit more headroom than your seventy 80 too. Its my favourite celestion speaker and it can still sound fat in open back cabs. I think the eminence equivalent is called "the tonker".
Its funny you mention Mesa speakers - the black shadow (i dont know its actual specs) is a monster of a speaker. Its very efficient and has a really big, clear tone - possibly do to the massive magnet. Worth looking into for your uses for sure. I think something in that ballpark by eminence would be the swamp thing.
Hope all this helps.

 

[LReese]

Re: Need more clean head room

What about an older Mesa Mark II/III? Something that might not look shiny and new but would be reliable after a proper servicing. Not sure of your budget. That is if you cannot make your current amp work.

About the Twin comment - A twin and a Suhr Riot pedal can go into Marshall territory if you're willing to consider pedals. Actually a number of amp/pedal combos can do that.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Need more clean head room

Big Stages/Rooms are not about Big/Powerful amps. It is about sound reinforcement.....that is to say either floor monitors or in ear monitors. THAT is what you need to look into. The last think you want is to get into is a volume war, on stage, with your cohorts. For all it matters, you can use a 5 Watt amp...the FOH guy is going to be running you anywhere past the front end of the stage.
I have never been in a room that sat thousands of people that Did Not have pro sound.
Are you the only band.?
How much clout do you have to say you are going to use a 50-100 watt amp into a 4x12. The Black Crowes can use what they want, but most bands do not have their leverage over the Venue/Sound Man.
best

 

[BrianS.]

Re: Need more clean head room

If you replace that 70/80 with a more efficient speaker, you will probably find that your amp has a fair amount of more clean headroom. I replaced the 70/80 in my Traynor YCV40 (40 watt 1x12) with an Eminence Cannibis Rex and was amazed at how much louder and cleaner the amp got. It's pretty surprising how much "overdrive" can come from a speaker.