Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

millsart

New member
I'm planning on picking up an Ibanez semi hollow body Artcore guitar, just because I've always thought the 335 style guitars were cool looking and out of all the guitars I've owned, I've never had a semi hollow body.

As such, I don't really know anything about them, "them" being any maple laminate body semi hollow body guitar basically.

Generally speaking what type of sonic properties do these guitars have ? Lots of mids ? Thick warm lows ? etc

Point of all this is to help pick up the right pickups for it as everything I've heard say the stock pickups, be it an Epi, an Ibanez etc are all quite poor.

Perhaps buying a more expensive guitar would help but at this point, I figure I'll just get something lower end, maybe $400-500 range and see what its all about. No point buying a $1500 axe only to find that I never play it.

Now jass isn't my thing so I'm not looking for any traditional "jazz box" styles. I'm not going to put 12's on the thing, I'm not going for a Scofield (sp?) tone or anything like that.


I sort of see this guitar as being used for some pyschodelic rock styles, 80's synth pop stuff etc. I like a 335 just fits that "look" so well and yes I know the look of a guitar doesnt dictate what you can play, but a little bit of image can go a long way at a gig.

We can make it easy and say the overly generic "Cure" sounds from the Wish era. Maybe some Pixies type stuff etc.

So thats one aspect I'd be looking for, ideally with a neck PU, something lower output, warm and lush, but with really good string defination for some big chords.



Then for the bridge, a bit of a different direction with a really raw rock/punk style. Big thick raw classic tones like Sex Pistols, Black Flag, Rancid etc. you get the idea. Doesnt have to match with the bridge at all either.

Maybe even a P-90 style Phat Cat ? It would have to be a standard humbucker sized pup though as mounting woudl be an issue otherwise.


Problem I'm having though is not knowing anything about 335 style guitars, I don't know what would match well with the guitar sonically.

Would a JB for example sound like a dentist drill/ice pick in that maple laminate or would its peaky mids actually really open up the guitar ?

Would a A5 mag pickup like a C5 with its huge bottom become way to boomy or would it give the thighness and defination the guitar sorely needs ?


So basically long post short (meaing to say that know if you've read this far huh ?) is I need a bit of 335 style guitar 101.


Also while your at it, any suggestions for axes to check out would be nice as well. Some of the Epi's look nice like the Dot line. Hear good thing about those for the money, though the Artcore has a bit more style and some really cool colors.

One axe that I really liked the looks of the AS73B, its rather entry level at only $299 but its done up in flat black with a faint white binding. Looks very very cool.

http://www.ibanez.com/hollow/guitar.aspx?m=AS73B


Given I love vintage hotrods, and not those $200K "boyd rods" that totally miss the point, I totally love the flat black.


Do a couple of red nice tone/volume knobs and it would be a sweet looking guitar, though how it would play......???
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

I've owned a few semi's and hollows and all I can tell you is to go for clarity. Get CTS 500k pots all around with .022mfd Orange Drops and do 50's style wiring. As far as what goes well in a 335, I'd stay away from overly warm, middy pickups, as a 335 style has plenty of mids. My fave in my Sheraton is the Phat Cat set. It's pretty much the sounds you've described.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

Semi-hollows tend to have plenty of bottom and low mids, sometimes a bit on the flabby side (as with any design, some individual guitars are better than others). I'd go for something with a little bit of sizzle or bite, like the Pearly Gates or even 59's -- a pickup I don't generally like but will sound good in a dark guitar.

It's not always the case. My 355 (like a 335 with LP Custom binding/fingerboard/headstock) is unusually bright with a lot of upper mid resonance. Bottom line, play the guitar before you buy it. And just as important, determine its individual tone personality before buying pickups, just as you're wisely trying to do in here with the semihollow design in general.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

I've got a few 335's: Sheraton, Dot, and Echotone. I like these best because the body shape has the Gibson dimensions.

I go two different routes with PU's:
PAF - a pair of '59's is nice. In the neck, an A2 magnet PU (PG's, '57 Classics, 490's, etc) is usually dull & lifeless in that warm body. To me, an A5 in the neck is usually the best option, although an A3 or A4 can be better in a brighter body. In the bridge, if the A5 in the '59B is too bright, swap it out for an A4, which has a balanced EQ (instead of scooped mids).

Rock - I like a JazzN/C5 combo, which gives a hot bridge PU for solos with plenty of bite. Again, if either is too bright, put in an A4 to fill it out. This works great for all kinds of rock.

Check out used guitars online for deals. You can get a Sheraton or Dot Deluxe (flame maple top) in like new condition in the $300+ range. That leaves plenty of cash left over for a good set of PU's. Testing a guitar in a store only tells you what it sounds like with the stock PU's, which are crappy. Usually they're not set up, have rusty strings, and the intonation is off, so "testing" is a better idea in theory then practice. You can turn down a great guitar only because it needs 15 minutes of set up. I can't tell much about how a guitar will sound until I get it home, take it apart, and redo the electronics. If the body's tone is bright or dark, you can dial in the PU's EQ with magnets, pots, and caps, so don't sweat that. Look for good workmanship & a nice tone unplugged. I get most of mine online, and I know that I can make them sound 100% better in a couple hours.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

The 59s are what Robert Smith endorses now. Can't speak for the bridge, but the neck will cover Disintegration/Wish. If the guitar has enough mids--can't speak for the Artcores, but that isn't always the case with Ibbys--you should be good to go.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

yeah, you wanna play the guitar for a while stock to see what its native voice is ... then you can decide on how you want to enhance it ... i have actually played some semis (with floating bridges, mostly) that did not have enough lows/low mids
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think your definatly right that I'll have to wait and hear it before buying anything, but its good to have some idea's of what I can expect.

59 neck does sound pretty promising and I am intrigued by a fat cat in the bridge, though it would have to be a custom shop job as I like the hot p90's and I don't belive they make those in a humbucker size
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

I have an Ibanez ARTSTAR AS-120. The pickups in that are the Ibanez Super 58s. I've also used those in some of their Artist models, and frankly I like them.

I don't know for sure what they use in the ArtCORES, but I would never change the pickups in my AS-120.

Good luck in your search.

Bill
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

I bought a Tokai 335 purely on looks alone, didn't have a remote idea what it would sound like, just loved the cherry red and cream binding.

It was this guitar that introduced me to the forum and I went with a set of Seth Lovers SH-55. I've never looked back since making the switch.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

yeah, you wanna play the guitar for a while stock to see what its native voice is ... then you can decide on how you want to enhance it ... i have actually played some semis (with floating bridges, mostly) that did not have enough lows/low mids

Well, not really. The "native voice" is shaped a lot by the PU's, and in the vast majority of imported guitars those are crappy Asian-made ones. Some have ceramic magnets which will make the guitar seem brighter than it is. Some are high output & make the guitar seem darker. Sometimes the neck PU is hotter than the bridge PU. The PU's may be in no way a good match for the guitar, but the manufacturers don't seem overly concerned...they're looking at costs. Not a lot of consistency, but then the average Korean or Chinaman isn't a guitar player & doesn't understand the subtleties. You can't tell much by the amplified sound in a store, with God knows what cheap PU's in it. If you think you can, you may be in for a big surprise when you get home and install a good set of PU's.

Your best bet is to listen to the quality of the unplugged tone. You don't know how your (new) PU's will react to the wood, and it's density, grain, mineral & water content. That's where tweaking with magnets, pots, and caps comes in. Like you said, floating bridges often don't seem to have as much low end, which is logical as they aren't sunk into the body & can't transfer tone as well, especially bass.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

59 neck does sound pretty promising and I am intrigued by a fat cat in the bridge, though it would have to be a custom shop job as I like the hot p90's and I don't belive they make those in a humbucker size

The best HB/Phat Cat pairing, is with the HB in the bridge, as it's warmer, and keeps the bridge form being too bright & thin. The Phat Cat's single coil qualities work very well in the neck, & keep it from being too dark & bassy. If you choose PU's that make the bridge brighter (SC) & the neck darker (HB), you may recreate the unpopular Gibson 490R/498T mistake, where getting a good amp setting for both is nearly impossible.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

great thread. I am currently trying to decide what do to with my el cheapo find of the month - my $299 Washburn HB35S. The guitar is quite good and the PUPs are not terrible but I think I can do alot better. I have had it bad for P90 sounds but don't want to mess with my Strat or ASAT Classic Bluesboy (Seth Lover in neck - not crazy about it but working with it before I take it out) to do it. I really like the idea of Phat Cats in this guitar - would you recommend 500K pots with them? Anyone have Phat Cats in their semi-hollow?
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

here's a pic of my new one.

Guitars.jpg
 
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Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

great thread. I really like the idea of Phat Cats in this guitar - would you recommend 500K pots with them? Anyone have Phat Cats in their semi-hollow?

A pair of Phat Cats is a good idea in any HB guitar. I'm a big 335 fan, and like 250K's on my bridge PU's (in them & LP's & SG's), all the more so with a P-90. Even then, a bridge P-90 is still bright, but I've taken off the worst of the shrillness. A 500K on any single coil bridge PU is like nails on a chalk board.

On the neck I think a 500K is best. By warming the bridge & brightening the neck, you get the EQ's closer, so that one amp EQ setting is great for both. Going the other route, and making the PU's total opposites in EQ (ala 490R/498T) means one will sound good, and the other will not, so you'll use just one.

I look at pot values based on PU position and how hot the PU is wound; which spot needs warming & which needs brightening.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

Blueman - interesting suggestion - never thought of it. I had a LP Studio with the that PUP combo and never could really get it set up exactly how I wanted it from an amp EQ perspective. I ended up staying on both PUPs most of the time because I couldn't get my amp settings to work - except on different channels. channel 1 bridge, channel 2 neck but then the OD and boost profiles were limited. It's always a trade off somewhere.

The current neck can get muddy but it's tweakable and I think I have them balanced pretty good now - I have to fire up my Rivera later when nobody is around to see if it holds up at volume. I'll have to experiment a bit. Thanks for the advice.
 
Re: Need semi hollow body pickup 101 lesson please

Blueman - interesting suggestion - never thought of it. Thanks for the advice.

The best way to approach the quest for tone is: get a pair of American-made PU's with ohms readings in the range you want (PAF, moderate-output bridge, or hot bridge? Vintage, rock, or metal? Clean, dirty, or both? Hash all this out first and match up a set that fit your general needs). You won't know how your wood will react to the PU's until they're installed. Good chance they'll need some tweaking to get the magic tone you're after. If you have an assortment of magnets, pots, and caps, you can shape the EQ & output. The goal is to have balanced outputs relative to each other, and both to sound very good with the same amp setting. That assures that you'll use both of them often. For me, this means a bright neck & a warm bridge. Be creative. Ask questions. You want to avoid settling for less on either PU.
 
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