Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

T

Tarnishedrose

New member
OK, a few months back I changed the pickups in my late 70's Daion Power X. Love the way the guitar plays, but the pickups were Daion's version of super distortions. No clean, no warmth, and much higher output (6-7db) than my Strat which has the Fender Alnico Humbuckers. BTW - the Daion is a through the neck design, brass nut, brass tailpiece. Heavy guitar, about 10 pounds. Am not sure what type of wood the body is made of, but I think it's mahogany. Anyway, so we settled on the SD SH2 and SH4 set.

Well, the output is now less and better matched to my Strat, BUT, no warmth here. Nada.....even changed the pots to new CLS's, which helped the clarity, but still no warmth. My knee-jerk is the Daion would be great for hard rock and metal as it is today; not what we play.

So the first question is - do I try a different set of pickups hoping to find the tone I'm looking for, and if so what, OR, do I say screw it, and find another guitar that sounds like I want it to from the get go.

For the latter, I did play an FMT HH Tele yesterday, that had a SD SH1 in the neck and a Pearly Gates in the bridge, and it sounded great. Warmth was there. Same type of neck through design, but not the brass nut and tailpiece. Might be able to swing the guitar in a couple of months - HOWEVER - didn't play and feel as good as my Daion.

So with respect to the pickups; since the pickup combination in the Tele sounded so good, I'm wondering if that is the proper (or better) set for my Daion? Maybe something else? Any help and/or comments would be appreciated! In the big picture, I don't want to spend good money after bad, if you know what I mean, but I do love the way the Daion plays and feels.

Thanks!!

Al
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

I don't know if this is yours but I tried doing a little research.
http://www.guitar-list.com/daion/electric-guitars/daion-mark-x

I love the JB JAzz set but don't know how it works in a neck through. That link says ASH body and maple rosewood laminated neck thorough. ( if that is your guitar). The JB JAZZ set is not what I call WARM. and the JB is quite HIGH in output. you can first try using 250 k pots they work well with JB JAZZ. and would warm them up .An Alnico II based pickup like the Anico II PRO or Pearly gates would be warmer.

Edit: I think you got a nice rare guitar from what I am reading. I would not dump it. You said you have tried the 59 and Pearly gates in another neck through. So give those a try. I would hmm try the pearly gates.
 
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Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Yeah, before you go changing out pickups, try 250k volume pots with the JB and Jazz.
If that doesn't solve the problem for you, try an SH-11 Custom Custom in the bridge position and an SH-1N '59 in the neck position with 500k volume pots.

Neck through guitars are known for being quite a bit brighter sounding than set neck guitars, plus the woods used in your Daion (if it is the same as the link Jocelyn posted) are also much brighter than the woods used on the FMT tele. These are all things that need to be taken into consideration when selecting pickups or tweaking.

That said whether or not you should get a new guitar entirely is totally up to you. if you have some sort of sentimental attachment to the Daion or if you really like it, then obviously you're not gonna get rid of it. But if you couldn't care less, I'd still say exhaust some tweaking options to make sure it's really not the guitar for you before getting rid of it (or keep it and get a new guitar anyway)
 
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Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Thanks guys. Yep, that's the guitar. Mine is Wine Red (not that it matters) I do plan on keeping the guitar, as I love the way it feels and plays. I also kept the stock pickups and pots so I can put it back to stock if necessary. AFA it being rare, right now I see them for around $1000US, so we've not gotten into collectable territory yet. The guys at Gruhn said just play it and don't worry about it, as it would probably not be a guitar that appreciates.

Would a 250k pot make that much of a difference in the tone? That certainly would be the least expensive fix. I think if the 250k pot only gets me part of the way to an alnico or SH-1N with respect to warmth then I would rather take the entire step and just change out the pickups.

Thanks!!

Al
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Yeah changing pot values does make a huge difference. I generally dislike JBs in bright guitars unless they've got 250k pots. 250k is normally used for single coils to tame their excessive high end. With a really bright humbucker like a JB, the 250k does the same thing and makes it sound a lot warmer/more balanced.

Of course, if you do the pot change and still don't particularly care for the JB/Jazz combo, then a pickup change will definitely be in order. It's just harder to know what a pickup will sound like in a guitar until you've installed it and can hear it. Pot value changes are easier to predict, and cheaper to do!
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

The 250k vol pot really does make a noticeable tone difference. Try that first. IIRC the JB was originally intended to be used with a 250k vol pot anyway.

You didn't say what type of music you play, except that you don't play hard rock or metal. If the JB is a bit too high output for what you play and you want more clarity/less distortion and more warmth, then you might consider the SH-16 (59/C hybrid), Slash, or even CC.

If you may be interested in magnet swapping, an A2 mag instead of the A5 would reduce output and warm it up considerably. Very simple 5-15 min operation.

In any case, try the 250k pot first...quick, simple, cheap.
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Agree with Doc.

Try 250k or 300k pot first.

Then try A2 mag (this will both warm it up and lower the output).
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

CTN said:
nope, you need this: http://www.allparts.com/EP-0085-000-CTS-250K-Split-Shaft-Audio-Pot_p_1269.html

Audio taper (aka logarithmic taper) is used for volume controls
Click to expand...

Very cool. Thanks!! You know, I'm 56 and been playing for, well, since I was 13 (did "retire" a couple of times), AND, to add insult to injury am an Electrical Engineer. So you would think I would know all this stuff. That said, I've always had someone else do the work on my guitars, and just recently have begun doing my own work. So I greatly appreciate everyone's help. I'll order the pots later today, and if you are ever in Western North Carolina give me a ring and the dinner and beer will be on me. Actually, I get up to Toronto on occasion as well.

Al
www.tarnishedrose.com
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

I have a partscaster, ash body, maple neck, rosewood board. The JB in the bridge was pretty bright, but to maintain the way that I like my wiring, I really wanted to keep 500k pots to help with the neck clarity. I opted for a Dimarzio Norton in the bridge, very warm, very versitle medium output pickup. Sounds pretty meaty when you split it too, which is a bonus. If you don't end up liking the JB with you pot change, I thought I'd throw out the Norton suggestion.
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

I would look at getting rid of brass nut. And maybe if you still want to warm up the guitar, try a set of A2 pickups.
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

CTN said:
Yeah, before you go changing out pickups, try 250k volume pots with the JB and Jazz.
If that doesn't solve the problem for you, try an SH-11 Custom Custom in the bridge position and an SH-1N '59 in the neck position with 500k volume pots.

Neck through guitars are known for being quite a bit brighter sounding than set neck guitars, plus the woods used in your Daion (if it is the same as the link Jocelyn posted) are also much brighter than the woods used on the FMT tele. These are all things that need to be taken into consideration when selecting pickups or tweaking.

That said whether or not you should get a new guitar entirely is totally up to you. if you have some sort of sentimental attachment to the Daion or if you really like it, then obviously you're not gonna get rid of it. But if you couldn't care less, I'd still say exhaust some tweaking options to make sure it's really not the guitar for you before getting rid of it (or keep it and get a new guitar anyway)
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the same; try 250k pots to warm up the JB. If that doesn't work, go with a Custom Custom at the bridge and an Alnico II Pro at the neck.
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

I went to the link of your band. Your band plays classic Rock and Blues, ( my fav Gen). As suggested above try the 250 k mode first. If it does not work then a pickup with A2 magnets will work. Putting an A2 in the JB is also a good option. But do the 250 k pot first.
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Jocelyn said:
I went to the link of your band. Your band plays classic Rock and Blues, ( my fav Gen). As suggested above try the 250 k mode first. If it does not work then a pickup with A2 magnets will work. Putting an A2 in the JB is also a good option. But do the 250 k pot first.
Click to expand...

I ordered the 250K pots yesterday. For about $12 and a hour's worth of work it's certainly worth it. If it doesn't work, then I'll probably switch to the 59 in the neck position, and maybe the Pearly Gates in the bridge, and just sell the SH2 and SH4 as a set like they came to recoup some of my cost. the Air Norton someone else mentioned also looked interesting.

BTW - thanks for checking out the website!

Al
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Like I said...JB with 250k pots.

Then JB with A2.

Don't get rid of the JB til you've tried both mods...you may just miss what you are looking for and go 'round in circles trying to find it and never getting there.
 
Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

GuitarDoc said:
Like I said...JB with 250k pots.

Then JB with A2.

Don't get rid of the JB til you've tried both mods...you may just miss what you are looking for and go 'round in circles trying to find it and never getting there.
Click to expand...

That's good advice. The pots are on the way and should be here Thursday. I do not know if I will be able to get them installed before I leave for London on Saturday evening, so I might not be able to report back for a few weeks (London is work, not play...dang...). I've never changed magnets out before, but went on-line and saw a couple of examples and it doesn't look too difficult if you take your time and have the proper tools. As I'm an electrical engineer working in the forensics world the tools are not a problem. I'll just need to take it slowly if we get to that point. I'll report back when finished.

I'm certainly glad I discovered this forum. Much more helpful and informative than The Gear Page with respect to pickups. Thanks again to all!!!

Al
 
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