Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

[Tarnishedrose]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Well, got the 250K pots in. Knocked the output down a bit. Still "bright", but not as much so. Using my tone knob on 7 smooths it out some. Will go with this a while before I do the magnet swap, which I plan on doing. Changing the brass nut is probably a good idea as well. Thanks again to everyone for the ideas!! Sure looks like it's saved me some money on new pickups!!

BTW GuitarDoc - guitar is staying with me. sorry...:+)

Al

 

[Grindspine]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

There is one more step you could take before magnet swapping or changing pickups, which is fairly easy.

Step one: Find an old-school coiled guitar cable.
Step two: Plug it into your guitar and amp.

It may sound silly, but those old coil cables had really high capacitance and a tendency to roll off the high end, especially longer cable lengths.

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

^ Monster cables do the same. Just think, you could spend $50 on a cable, or be more than halfway to the cost of most Duncan pickups.

 

[Grindspine]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

^ Monster cables do the same. Just think, you could spend $50 on a cable, or be more than halfway to the cost of most Duncan pickups.

I don't know the cost of old, coil style guitar cables, but I would assume they don't cost what Monster cables do.

Besides, it also depends which Monster cables you use. I happen to have several and know what I like.
------------------

But back to original topic, longer cables with high capacitance can darken the tone a little more if you're close but not quite to the warmth level you need out of your sound.

 

[CountFeedback]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Wow! Lots of “interesting” options being thrown at the OP.
Lets start simple… or maybe we can suggest you strip all the screws in your guitar, and pull your pick-ups apart making them worthless for resale. :banghead:

OK setting aside the sarcasm
You’ve put quality 500k volume and tone control in your guitar with new JB & Jazz set. Roll back the tone control a little (maybe between 5 to 8) and see if you like the sound. If that sounds close to exactly what you wanted, think about switching to 250k pots, or leave the 500k and don’t be upset about using the tone control.
If you switch to another pick-up you’ll need to go back to 500k.

The JB & Jazz is probably not the right set for the warm sound you want in that guitar. The Jazz is the clean bright neck humbucker, much more a pup you get for clarity than for warmth. The JB has a very strong personality; it can be warm and organic but it always has a strong midrange voice that you either like or don’t like, and in some pieces of wood it just doesn’t work.

Lots of Vintage output options that should give you a warmer “less metal” sound: 59, WLH, Seths, Slash, etc…

 

[jones]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

The Seth's are warm, but with great clarity. I just put some in my 339, totally different guitar I know so, for what it's worth... They don't give you an instant rock tone like most of the after market pickups and the 57's I'd say as well. But it's in there if you dig. I think they are really versatile, while still retaining a strong individual character of their own. If I were you I'd look at those, or the APH1 to start.

 

[Tarnishedrose]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Wow! Lots of “interesting” options being thrown at the OP.
Lets start simple… or maybe we can suggest you strip all the screws in your guitar, and pull your pick-ups apart making them worthless for resale. :banghead:

OK setting aside the sarcasm
You’ve put quality 500k volume and tone control in your guitar with new JB & Jazz set. Roll back the tone control a little (maybe between 5 to 8) and see if you like the sound. If that sounds close to exactly what you wanted, think about switching to 250k pots, or leave the 500k and don’t be upset about using the tone control.
If you switch to another pick-up you’ll need to go back to 500k.

The JB & Jazz is probably not the right set for the warm sound you want in that guitar. The Jazz is the clean bright neck humbucker, much more a pup you get for clarity than for warmth. The JB has a very strong personality; it can be warm and organic but it always has a strong midrange voice that you either like or don’t like, and in some pieces of wood it just doesn’t work.

Lots of Vintage output options that should give you a warmer “less metal” sound: 59, WLH, Seths, Slash, etc…

Well, changing out the pots to 250k's (which only took 30 minutes) did help some, and got me closer. Now, I can almost get the tone I'm looking for by turning my tone down to 6 or 7, so we're getting closer, and am going to roll with that for a while. We'll see how it works at our next rehearsal. Am going to "experiment" on a stock HB with the magnet change to make sure I can do it properly. Makes sense going from a ceramic to an alnico 2 would warm it up, and it's a lot less than a PU change-out ($10 each). Plus I like "projects". If it doesn't work I'll put the original magnet back in and buy new PU's and sell the SH2 and SH4. If I dick it up, well, so be it. Won't be the first time I've screwed up a modification! :+)

SD said what everyone else here has suggested - any alnico 2 type pickup would be warmer. I did really like the '59 in a through the neck Tele I played a few weeks back, so that would be first on the radar.

Al

 

[CountFeedback]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Well, changing out the pots to 250k's (which only took 30 minutes) did help some, and got me closer. Now, I can almost get the tone I'm looking for by turning my tone down to 6 or 7, so we're getting closer, and am going to roll with that for a while. We'll see how it works at our next rehearsal. Am going to "experiment" on a stock HB with the magnet change to make sure I can do it properly. Makes sense going from a ceramic to an alnico 2 would warm it up, and it's a lot less than a PU change-out ($10 each). Plus I like "projects". If it doesn't work I'll put the original magnet back in and buy new PU's and sell the SH2 and SH4. If I dick it up, well, so be it. Won't be the first time I've screwed up a modification! :+)

SD said what everyone else here has suggested - any alnico 2 type pickup would be warmer. I did really like the '59 in a through the neck Tele I played a few weeks back, so that would be first on the radar.

Al

the SH-2 & SH-4 are Alnico V same mag as 59.
you might consider Duncan's exchange policy before pullin any pups apart.

I luv the JB in some guitars... the Jazz is not bad but would not be my choice for a warmer neck pick-up.

 

[Scott Olson]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

If all else fails and you are within the 21 day exchange, go for the Custom Custom.

 

[Tarnishedrose]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

If all else fails and you are within the 21 day exchange, go for the Custom Custom.

Unfortunately, I've had the pick ups for over 6 months, so I'm outside the exchange window. I went ahead and ordered an Alnico II Pro for the neck, so we'll see how that sounds first. If it works, I'll go ahead and change the magnets on the SH2 and move it to the bridge position.

Al

 

[jimijames]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Unfortunately, I've had the pick ups for over 6 months, so I'm outside the exchange window. I went ahead and ordered an Alnico II Pro for the neck, so we'll see how that sounds first. If it works, I'll go ahead and change the magnets on the SH2 and move it to the bridge position.

I'm sorry I missed this, but isn't the alnico II pro the same wind as the jazz but with an alnico II magnet? Also, in terms of the circuit a 500k pot is identical to a 250k when the volume is around 7 (audio taper I believe). So I always go for 500k because it's harder to dial in extra brightness than it is to take it away.

One of my favorite all-time bridge pickups for metal was whatever DiMarzio got replaced by the 36th anniversary pickups. It was a 9k PAF style bridge pickup with alnico 2 (I think? Could have been alnico 5) and I think it would work well for what you want if you get the A2P in and you're looking for something a little more gutsy in the bridge. Haven't tried the anniversaries but if they're anything like the old guy I had they'd be worth a shot in the bridge.

Of if you're feeling really adventurous you could do a jazz/screamin' demon hybrid with A2. There's a high likelihood of it sounding like butt though. I say that because it's a 10k pickup with a resonant peak of 7k hertz, a/k/a it's almost definitely underwound 43 gauge so the finished product would probably have lower output than just the jazz neck in the bridge.

Also, I've heard good things about the PATB-3 blues sacrenso. Just saying for warm moderate output vintage you've got some options.

 

[Tarnishedrose]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

OK, just got a Alnico II Pro pick up and will be installing it into the neck position to see if it gets me to where I want to be. That said, I would like to re-ask about pots. I put CTS 250k audio taper pots in, but, while it toned down the brightness, now I'm back to one of the issues I had in the first place, which is needing to turn the pot down to about 6 to get the volume to start to roll off. The 500k pots I took out were linear taper and started to roll off right when I started turning down. So why would I want to use audio taper pots over linear taper?

Al

 

[uOpt]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

A neck through can be hard to make sound warm. Not sure if the brass nut does anything but if it does it won't help.

Why not a Pearly Gator since you already liked it?

Oh and get some pure nickel wound strings. Mayor difference.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

Changing the brass nut is probably a good idea as well.

The brass nut is just fine.

I've come across guitars like yours in the past and from what I remember, they were made at the Matsumoku factory in Japan, probably late '70s, early '80s, when they were at their peak.

To best suit the style you play with the band, an Antiquity set is what you want, being the next best thing a Seth Lover set.

This guitar simply LOVES low-output p'ups.

HTH,

 

[Tarnishedrose]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

The brass nut is just fine.

I've come across guitars like yours in the past and from what I remember, they were made at the Matsumoku factory in Japan, probably late '70s, early '80s, when they were at their peak.

To best suit the style you play with the band, an Antiquity set is what you want, being the next best thing a Seth Lover set.

This guitar simply LOVES low-output p'ups.

HTH,

Thanks, very good to know. I'm still going to install the Alnico II Pro probably tonight, but will be within the 21 day return policy if I don't like it.

Al

 

[Tarnishedrose]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

I went to the link of your band. Your band plays classic Rock and Blues, ( my fav Gen). As suggested above try the 250 k mode first. If it does not work then a pickup with A2 magnets will work. Putting an A2 in the JB is also a good option. But do the 250 k pot first.

OK, finally was able to install the Alnico II Pro in the neck position with 250k pots. Now we're talking. Much warmer, although I still have to roll the tone control down to 7 to make it to my liking. Sounds really good through my Egnater. The Boogie is at the rehearsal space, so we'll have to wait until the weekend to play through it. Just compared it to the Strat (with Fender stock Alnico Humbuckers) and it has about 2 db more output (measured with my Rat-shack db meter). I can live with that. Now, let's talk about the bridge PU. Would putting an A2 magnet in the SH-2 (which I just removed) and using it in the bridge position work? I hate to buy a new PU if I don't have to. Just as a reminder, I have both the SH-2 and SH-4 available; the SH-4 is in the bridge now and does need to either go away or be modified. Thoughts everyone?



Al

 

[CountFeedback]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

An A2pro and a Jazz are pretty much the same coils
so if you switch the magnet on your Jazz to A2 you have another Alnico II pro neck pickup.
It could work? In days of yore there were no different bridge or neck winds, all just the same... so it may work, you may like it.
I would not tamper with mag swaps and get another bridge pup; Seth or WLH.

 

[Tarnishedrose]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

An A2pro and a Jazz are pretty much the same coils
so if you switch the magnet on your Jazz to A2 you have another Alnico II pro neck pickup.
It could work? In days of yore there were no different bridge or neck winds, all just the same... so it may work, you may like it.
I would not tamper with mag swaps and get another bridge pup; Seth or WLH.

In truth, I've never met a bridge PU I've liked over the last 20 years or so. The only bridge PU I did like was in my early 1970's Les Paul, and both PU were the same in that guitar, so I guess I have my answer. So now the question is should I swap magnets and how difficult is it ($10 in cost), or do I sell the SH-2/SH-4 as a set and as you suggest, buy another PU, which would be another Alnico Pro II.

Al

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

As cheap as the mag swap is its worth a shot. Takes 10 minutes and is completely reversible if you dont like it. But just in case you dont like it and you want a different pickup I think the SH55 is the one your after.

 

[jumble jumble]

Re: Need some "Warm" Humbuckers

I even managed to swap mags in a Les Paul bridge pickup without burning a set of strings.